Carrot - Love Him or Hate Him?

[rissoles]

Carrot is overtly bland and ingenuous yet he betrays alarming subtlety and deviousness when the moment requires.

Carrot is honourable and trustworthy yet has been known to pursue his own agenda when needed.

Carrot is a very complex character not easily dismissed.

Carrot is quite spectacular.

and you just got to love him...

[Dotsie]

I think [Angua's] degenerated into a whiney, dog-like character

You're right about that. Although I don't really dislike her that much, it does annoy me a bit that she's always moaning about something. And even though we get to follow the story through her eyes, I can't see why she ended up with Carrot in Men At Arms. I never get the impression that he's something special to her, & he deserves better.

[mspanners]

Vetinari must go, He is holding back the development of others and the city.

What has He done for the City since making extortion legal?

Prevented a war over a floating Island that would have sunk back down anyway if He had not stepped in......... thus the reason for the war would have gone away by its self........Now if He had allowed the Klatchians to have Lesp they would have sent forces to secure it. When it sank back into the Sea these forces would have been destroyed, weakening Klatch and giving the city a free win.

He is no tactician..... Carrot for King says I!

[Tonyblack]

Vetinari must go, He is holding back the development of others and the city.

What has He done for the City since making extortion legal?

Prevented a war over a floating Island that would have sunk back down anyway if He had not stepped in......... thus the reason for the war would have gone away by its self........Now if He had allowed the Klatchians to have Lesp they would have sent forces to secure it. When it sank back into the Sea these forces would have been destroyed, weakening Klatch and giving the city a free win.

He is no tactician..... Carrot for King says I!

Spoiler for Jingo:

Vetinari didn't know the island would sink again. That's why he had Leonard take him underneath to find out.

[Jan Van Quirm]

I'll say it again - the Patrician is a manipulator and keeps A-M balanced between being completely lawless and just lawless enough to allow it to function.

Granny, Vimes and Vetinari are my joint 3 favourite characters (after Gaspode of course ) and they're all similar in that they know people and sometimes use their knowledge of what drives people against them...?

For instance the famous Cripple Mr. Onion game where Granny foils the riverboat card sharks with so many 'tells' that they have no idea what she's up to - Vimes managing to keep Nobby and Colon's venal attitudes in order most of the time - and Vetinari having bolts on the inside of his dungeons in GG...

So far as the Watch is concerned, Vetinari is like an ice-cool fulcrum between Carrot's 'charismatic' but excessive goodness (for want of a better word) and reasonable faith in people and Vimes' passionate cynicism, street-wise instincts and robustly spontaneous sense of justice. And with the Guilds too - he keeps them all up in the air so no one faction gets too powerful. I found Nightwatch rivetting because of its examination of everyone's early career and Vimes (past and present) and Vetinari were by far the most insightful and intriguing

If Vetinari was a spinning plate act then you could trust your Royal Doulton (with the blue periwinkles ) to him 'cos he never breaks 'em.

[Tonyblack]

What I like about Vetinari is the fact that he's so disconnected in some ways. He sees life as a sort of chess game and he's worked out all the possible moves in advance. It amuses him to then see that what he's predicted to himelf actually comes true.

But he's not perfect and now and again this attitude has put him into danger. One of his big surprises was discovering Vimes. He thought he knew exactly what Vimes would do in a given situation and then he found out he was wrong. To him Vimes was, he thought, a pawn, but he turned out to be a queen in chesspiece terms.

Vimes makes Vetinari's life more interesting and that's why he allows him a lot of leeway.

But Vetinari himself is one of Terry's great creations as far as characters go. Long may he rule!

[Straw Walker]

What I like about Vetinari is the fact that he's so disconnected in some ways. He sees life as a sort of chess game and he's worked out all the possible moves in advance. It amuses him to then see that what he's predicted to himelf actually comes true.

But he's not perfect and now and again this attitude has put him into danger. One of his big surprises was discovering Vimes. He thought he knew exactly what Vimes would do in a given situation and then he found out he was wrong. To him Vimes was, he thought, a pawn, but he turned out to be a queen in chesspiece terms.

Vimes makes Vetinari's life more interesting and that's why he allows him a lot of leeway.

But Vetinari himself is one of Terry's great creations as far as characters go. Long may he rule!

Hear Hear! In most of the Ankh Morpork books, Vetinari is a pivotal character and there is so much more mileage to be had from him.

[Catch-up]

I voted, for "OK". I have to agree with most of what Tony wrote. Carrot started out as a great character, but has mostly come to a dead end. I don't dislike the character, but lately when you read about him, or him and Angua, it just feels like a dead end. There's no way I can imagine AM without Vetinari! And, the only interesting thing I can think of TP doing with Carrot is to have him struggle with going over to the dark side, so to speak, over something, or come close to it.

Hope all that made sense. If it didn't, I'm blaming it on the flu.

[Jan Van Quirm]

Hope you feel better soon Catch-up

I like the teetering on the brink idea - very Anakin Skywalker and maybe Angua can have puppies on the way too!

[Catch-up]

Thanks Jan! I'm doing better. It just keeps cycling around here.

I forgot to say that I also agree with Sharlene's comments about Angua. I find the dog-like traits he assigns to her really annoying. It wouldn't be bad if it were just a comment here or there.

[Jan Van Quirm]

well - she is a bitch sometimes to make up for the fido stuff

[Catch-up]

I would rather see her be more werewolfy.

[chris.ph]

next time you see that flu cycling past catchup kick it off its bike

[Tiffany]

Sorry you have flu Catch-up, hope you feel better soon.

[rissoles]

If we are talking about the most "important", rounded and influential character then I think that Foul Ol' Ron deserves a mention.

"Millennium hand and shrimp" as they say.