Thud! Discussion *Spoilers*

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Postby Beyond Birthday » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:27 am

I might as well throw my two-cents in.

First I'll get the complaining part out of the way: The Sally and Angua bar scene dragged and didn't really have any conclusion. It just sort of petered off. While I think that it's interesting that Carrot's over-dedication to his job may end up ruining his relationship with Angua I get the feeling that this'll never be brought up again. Also, Sally is annoying. Yes, I realize that she's annoying because she spends most of the book hanging out with a werewolf but maybe it would've been a good idea to see more of how she acts without Angua around. I don't think this will happen, too, because Pratchett seems to be going for a "Hyper Police" thing with the two.

With that said, I really like this book. I like how awesome Vimes is throughout, I like Angua, I like Detritus and I like Carrot (even though he's barely in it). I still say this book should have been called Vimes is an Awesome Bad***.

I'd say this book is more about racism in general but there is some commentary on religion here and there (most of which I didn't care about). I don't really think religion as a whole is portrayed as good or evil here. I mean, yeah, we have a group of dwarves willing to destroy history for the sake of not liking it but it's also balanced out by Mr. Hand-For-An-Axe (yeah...I forgot his name since I read it). If this is an anti-religion book then...I'm okay with that. At the end of the day there are bad things to be pointed out about almost anything, so why not? At least it can still be enjoyed for its story and characters if you don't like the message.

As for the lack of jokes everyone keeps talking about I honestly didn't mind.
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Postby BaldFriede » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:48 am

Like Jean I like the Angua-Sally relationship, and I think there may be cooking something. Perhaps it is just because I am a lesbian. I definitely hope to see more of Sally. And, contrary to what some of the others said, I like Sally.
Interestingly Prachett, who has tackled so many topics, has completely left out homosexuality in his books. Maybe he fears some people might be repelled by the issue.
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Postby pip » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:56 am

BaldFriede wrote:Like Jean I like the Angua-Sally relationship, and I think there may be cooking something. Perhaps it is just because I am a lesbian. I definitely hope to see more of Sally. And, contrary to what some of the others said, I like Sally.
Interestingly Prachett, who has tackled so many topics, has completely left out homosexuality in his books. Maybe he fears some people might be repelled by the issue.


Have you read Unseen Academicals. Definitely more than a hint of homosexuality here.
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Postby BaldFriede » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:08 pm

No, that one is among the dozen Discworld books we don't have in our library yet.
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Postby pip » Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:34 pm

BaldFriede wrote:No, that one is among the dozen Discworld books we don't have in our library yet.


Keep going then. Loads more fun to be had. :D
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Postby One Man Bucket » Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:38 pm

There's also two of the troops in Monstrous Regiment who were all but stated to be lesbians.

Sally is probably heterosexual based on her rather strong reaction to Carrot but she could easily be bisexual. I doubt she'd go for Angua considering she wants and knows she can't get her man. It doesn't seem like logical behaviour and the sort of thing that would have Vimes kicking her off the force for being a disruptive influence.
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Postby Tonyblack » Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:18 pm

I get the feeling from reading the books, that Terry likes writing for Angua. She's one of the few characters that he writes from their point of view - Vimes is another. The thing is, Terry saddled Angua with Carrot and as their relationship seems to be really dull, he has to get the two of them apart. After Fifth Elephant, you hardly ever see them in a scene together.

Putting Sally and Angua together, with the problems that causes for werewolves makes for an interesting story and allows Angua to develop.

I thought Cheery was something of a fifth wheel in that girls night out bit. Which was a shame as I like Cheery. :D

One thing I'd like to add is that all the Watch books seem to have a theme that it doesn't matter what your species is, if you are in the Watch, then you are a copper, first and foremost.

Angua and Sally start off as natural enemies - werewolf and vampire, but eventually treat each other with respect as fellow coppers. If you remember in Feet of Clay, Cheery had a thing about werewolves as well. :wink:
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Postby One Man Bucket » Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:40 pm

With regards Cheery I reckon the "feminist" movement has grown beyond her and she's now more spectator/participant than innovator like she once was. A suggestion of where to go with her story wise would be for her to get into a relationship and have us see dwarfish courtship in which they no longer have the added hurdle of figuring out each others genders. Ruby and Detritus was a good example of troll courtship in a modern setting so let's have one for dwarfs using Cheery

Terry also writes from Nobbs and Colons point of view and whenever we're among more secondary watchmen we get their points of view as well. I distinctly recall getting Buggy, Dorfl, Visit and Reg Shoe's point of views at some point. He can't get into Carrot's head because that would shatter his mystique but he's certainly gotten into every coppers head though he defaults to Vimes.
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Postby BaldFriede » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:02 pm

One Man Bucket wrote:There's also two of the troops in Monstrous Regiment who were all but stated to be lesbians.

Sally is probably heterosexual based on her rather strong reaction to Carrot but she could easily be bisexual. I doubt she'd go for Angua considering she wants and knows she can't get her man. It doesn't seem like logical behaviour and the sort of thing that would have Vimes kicking her off the force for being a disruptive influence.

Ah, but Sally's thinking may be "Get Angua into bed first and via her Carrot too".
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Postby Dotsie » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:25 pm

But you're basing this on absolutely no evidence whatsoever. Maybe she fancies Cheery.
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Postby BaldFriede » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:40 pm

There is some evidence, at least for me. But maybe it is just wishful thinking. Anyway, we will see what the future brings.
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Postby mystmoon » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:07 pm

Have to admit I sympathised with Cheery during the girls night out bit, I'm all too used to having what people say go whoosh over my head
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Postby Tonyblack » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:11 pm

mystmoon wrote:Have to admit I sympathised with Cheery during the girls night out bit, I'm all too used to having what people say go whoosh over my head
Literally, in Cheery's case. :lol:
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Postby Maeve » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:56 am

I have to say, I'm a lesbian, and I certainly didn't see anything to Sally and Angua's relationship in that way... Doesn't really seem like there's a huge amount of evidence for that- I'm more inclined towards Dotsie's Cheery Theory :lol:
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I generally just loved this book. I think it does make points about racism and religion but if anything what I took from it was the ideas of morals in policing and such. A bit obvious I know but there you goes :D
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Postby mystmoon » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:02 am

Tonyblack wrote:
mystmoon wrote:Have to admit I sympathised with Cheery during the girls night out bit, I'm all too used to having what people say go whoosh over my head
Literally, in Cheery's case. :lol:

Meh, literally in both cases, i'm only 5 foot
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