I Shall Wear Midnight *Spoilers*

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Postby Tonyblack » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:01 am

poohcarrot wrote:Hi Samsscarf

That smiley is really bugging me. I keep watching it hoping the green one will get to the far right and it never does! :lol:
You'll never get a Far Right Green. It's a political thing. :lol:

Welcome to the site, Samsscarf! :wink:
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Postby Who's Wee Dug » Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:53 pm

Welcome to the site, JustJas92! and Samsscarf. :)
He willnae tak' a drink! I think he's deid! , on the other hand though A Midgie in yir hand is worth twa up yir kilt.
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Loved ISWM

Postby leelee66 » Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:35 am

I finished the book yesterday and loved it. I really hope that Terry Pratchett does write another Tiffany Aching book, she is a really interesting character.
Hanging out for the next Discworld novel woo hoo :D
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Postby Tonyblack » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:04 pm

Welcome to the site, leelee66! :D

The odds are on a new Watch book for the next one, possibly titled 'Snuff'. :wink:
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Postby Penfold » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:47 pm

Hellooo ane welcome leelee66. :D
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Postby Who's Wee Dug » Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:18 pm

Welcome to the site, leelee66! and with the Aussie Discworld Con next year you can get it signed as well. :)
He willnae tak' a drink! I think he's deid! , on the other hand though A Midgie in yir hand is worth twa up yir kilt.
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Postby Olorin » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:10 pm

A'rite troops!

Gotta say I thoroughly enjoyed this book, it held my attention right up until the very end, and thats no mean feat as I have piles of unfinished books lying around. Not because I'm lazy or anything, I just have a very busy mind and jump from book to book, depending what mood I'm in at that moment. Still not finished Unseen Academicals yet, finding it to be quite hard work.
I thought the Nac Mac Feegle were very tame in this outing compared to the previous books which was a little disapointing. I also noticed their language had changed slightly, it was more accurate to true Scottish slang and dialects, whereas the previous books were like a stereotyped language of made up words. Being Scottish I found it hilarious, but in this book much of their language seemed just the normal everyday type. Mabye to non Scots it will seem just as funny and they wont even notice the slight shift to a more accurate representation, but it definently stands out to me.
The Cunning Man imo is one of Terry's creepiest creations yet, I found him and many parts of this story to be darker than anything he has written before, I'm pretty suprised that the story ventured into such dark places, giving that the Tiffany stories have been for younger readers. The scene with the hands coming out of the book was actually, pretty scary :)

I was a little confused that more wasnt said of Amber and her strange powers, it seemed to just be forgotten about and I found that to be a bit of a hole in the story.

Overall though I thought it was bloody great, I thought the death of the Baron was beautifully written, and it really made me reflect and think that death of a loved one might not be such a tragedy after all.
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Postby Who's Wee Dug » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:29 pm

Hi Olorin, welcome to the forum. :)
He willnae tak' a drink! I think he's deid! , on the other hand though A Midgie in yir hand is worth twa up yir kilt.
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Postby pandasthumb » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:45 am

I finished this very early this morning. I couldn't put it down as I found it faintly disturbing, as many of you have stated, and I agree that is not quite the same sort of children's book. My husband was very concerned as he said I didn't laugh once or insist on reading choice parts out to him. And I don't think that there were really any funny bits, or clever bits (although I really appreciated the discussion of words as sounds). I read all the dw novels at least once every 6 months (ok, so maybe the colour of magic only gets a jersey every 14) and I'm sorry to say that this is the first one that I don't really want to read again.

I found the Esk parts annoying as I didn't feel that she was really necessary to plot. The information that Tiffany received from her she could have got from Mrs Proust. I also didn't see the point of Tiff seeing her future self - it seemed rather un-witchy to me. I can't imagine Granny Weatherwax be having with that sort of thing.

But I love the Feegles and am very pleased that Wee Mad Arthur has found a clan - I had been wondering about him :wink:
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Postby Tonyblack » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:59 am

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it so much. I thought it was one of his best - but it wouldn't do if we all liked the same thing. :) Personally, I'm not that bothered about a book being laugh-out-loud funny, I'm more interested in depth and a book that makes me think. This one had that aplenty.

As to Wee Mad Athur - I guess he's AWOL at the moment. Don't know what Sam Vimes will say. :lol:
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Postby Samsscarf » Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:38 am

Image
poohcarrot wrote:Hi Samsscarf

That smiley is really bugging me. I keep watching it hoping the green one will get to the far right and it never does! :lol:

Sorry about that, Poohcarrot, I hadn't noticed. But, now you come to mention it, I see that the blue one never actually changes place either.

Tonyblack wrote:
poohcarrot wrote:Hi Samsscarf

That smiley is really bugging me. I keep watching it hoping the green one will get to the far right and it never does! :lol:
You'll never get a Far Right Green. It's a political thing. :lol:

Welcome to the site, Samsscarf! :wink:


I think you've cracked the Blue code, too. Strange how the Red one hops around, though. I do assure you that there's absolutely nothing political in it; I don't even have the right to vote. Image
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Postby poohcarrot » Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:22 pm

Image

Actually, those smileys are very political.
Blue=Tory
Red=Labour
Yellow=LDP

The blue one is on the far right and never moves.
The red one starts off on the far left and jumps around until it is centre.
The yellow one starts just left of centre then ends up next to the blue. 8)
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Postby raisindot » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:26 pm

Just finished it, and I must say that my actions are completely mixed on this.

It started off very promising, establishing Tiffany as the "fully functional Chalk witch" she needed to be. But for me at least the central story never really developed. It was just another "evil presence that Tiffany must overcome" story. The connection between Tiffany's kiss of Winter and the resurrection of the Cunning Man is never adequately explained by Esk, who seems to be here only to encourage younger readers to move on to "Equal Rites." The bark of the Cunning Man sems to be far worse than this bite, a child's version of the Summoning Dark. The metamorphosis of the Duchess from cruel taskmaster to milquetoast, just because the CM's nefarious influence is lifted and Mrs. Proust knows her backstory , makes no sense at all. And why do we never see the evil nurse get her proper commupance? She's a great villain who should stayed through the story as Tiffany's nemesis. Why didn't the CM take over her instead? That would have made for a very nice ending conflict. How easy it is to burn the body of a convicted murderer--how harder it would have been to burn the body of a nurse, who is supposed to be restoring health.

So much of this seems driven by calculation. Why, for example, is Tiff required to go to AM to get the Baron, when a clacks would have gotten there as fast? Or, she could have gone anywhere else to find him. But by going to AM, we get to encounter nearly all of the major AM characters, save for Vetinari, Ridcully William De Word and Moist. And all of these characters act totally differently than they have in past books. Don't like Carrot in the later books? He's a complete tool here. Angua doesn't speak like Angua at all. And Wee Mad Arthur a Feegle? That's okay, but what about Buggy Spires?

Oh, and in the end we get all our witch favorites, plus Verence and Magrat (who, regrettably, get no speaking lines). It almost seems like Pterry, in concluding the Tiffany series, is trying to promote his young readers to move on to the DW series. Nothing wrong with that, but the intent seems nearly as commercial as Pterry's promotion of the Thud boardgame and "Where's My Cow" in Thud!

While this might have been a tighter book than UAthere is still plenty of narrative fat. Backstories and tangental side conversations go on for far too long, as they did in UA.

And the Feegles! They started off as funny, fun-loving warriors, but here they are just annoying. What's less interesting than a serious Feegle? And Pterry's ill-dated decision to have them start 'mixing' with the humans removes their whole mystique. Tugs of war between Feegles and humans? Preposterous! And why would the Feegles even need to be worried about having a deed to their land? They'd be able to quickly dispatch any human shovel carrier before they got within a mile of the mound.

And the whole Amber story, which starts off as a terrible tale of abuse waiting proper retribution, peters out to nothing. Her father is never really punished, Amber is not removed to a safer environment (although one assumes that the Feegle are now her protectors), and we get no sense of what she is ever going to be.

And the climax is just--underwhelming. Let's all jump through the fire, woo woo. After several hundred pages, an enemy of Summoning Dark menace is dispatched with barely any danger to Tiffany? Throughout this series the quality of the 'foes' has totally nosedived. In Wee Free Men, she needed to discover who she really was to defeat the Queen, who came close to beating her. Here, it feels like a final exam.

It really all feels forced and much like a fairy tale, so much so that this intent is even stated in the narrative. But it doesn't feel genuine, or overly dramatic. Tiffany never seems to be in any real danger, nor does her solution seems to change her at all. People hating witches? Don't solve that by changing their minds, instead solve it by killing yet another monster. There we go.

Compared to the straightforward simplicity and freshness of "Wee Fee Men" and even "Hatful of Sky," this is really a very self-conscious, very forced and all-too-contrived conclusion to this series.

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Postby poohcarrot » Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:26 pm

So J-I*b, you didn't like it, then? :D

"Chacun à son goût", as they say in Wales. :lol:

Several times you've mentioned your top TP books. I'd love to see your top ten (if you have 10, that is.) :?
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Postby raisindot » Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:14 pm

poohcarrot wrote:So J-I*b, you didn't like it, then? :D

"Chacun à son goût", as they say in Wales. :lol:

Several times you've mentioned your top TP books. I'd love to see your top ten (if you have 10, that is.) :?


As I said, mixed reactions. Some of it was quite good, but overall, I was disappointed.

However, I may re-read it at a future time and reassess. Actually, I'd much rather listen to the audiobook version when it comes out. To hear Stephen Briggs doing all those voices would be a huge pleasure in itself.

And, because you asked, here's my Top 10 (which may or may not be identical to my Top 5 list. Things change).

1. The Fifth Elephant
2. Thief of Time
3. Thud!
4. Lords and Ladies
5. Hogfather
6. Going Postal
7. The Truth
8. Night Watch
9. Carpe Jugulum
10. Wee Free Men


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