To Wade or not to Wade . . . .

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Postby chris.ph » Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:04 pm

as a builder if i followed every health and safety rule id never get anything done.
measuring intelligence by exam results is like measuring digestion by turd length
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Postby Jarmara » Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:07 pm

**peers over shoulder for the HSE**

But of course Chris, you do follow all the rules :wink:
Contains Strong Language, Fantasy Violence and Mild Peril

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Postby chris.ph » Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:17 pm

of course i follow the hse rules but i cant control what everybody does on site can i :lol:
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Postby swreader » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:07 am

Quilpusha wrote: (omitted prior material) As to political parties today, they have become almost indistiguishable as they all struggle to attain the moral high ground.


Quil, are you talking about the political parties in the UK, I suspect, or in the US (in which case you don't know what you're talking about). But as an outsider, I think that you have two major parties Labor & Tory, but I know that there are several smaller parties.

What disturbs me, is that you don't seem to have any system where the people can express their views in a meaningful way--no regularly scheduled elections, and no way to turn the party in power out, as far as I can see, baring a vote of no confidence (is that right?). I'm rather disturbed by the fact that you seem to have an "inherited PM" now and while the US is looking at some type of major change (for the better one hopes), is there anything similar going on in the UK? Is there any way for the people to initiate this?

Obviously the example with which you started this is ridiculous--and suggests that there need to be some changes in public policy. We have our own shade of ridiculous--at least in my judgment. A 72 year old fighter pilot turned senator with a woman with 2 years experience in governing a state, no ideas or experience on foreign policy or really on national issues, and quite far right conservative as far as most women in this country. The thought of her stepping into the Presidency when she met her first foreign leader (in her whole life) today at a short conference while the President of Afghanistan was at the UN with no press permitted --scares the hell out of me.

But we are doing something about changing things, and other than gripe, is there a way for you all to as a nation force a new election?
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Postby Quilpusha » Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:45 am

swreader wrote:
Quil, are you talking about the political parties in the UK, I suspect, or in the US (in which case you don't know what you're talking about). But as an outsider, I think that you have two major parties Labor & Tory, but I know that there are several smaller parties.


I was refering to the UK, but the 'cap' may fit over there too.
swreader wrote:

What disturbs me, is that you don't seem to have any system where the people can express their views in a meaningful way--no regularly scheduled elections, and no way to turn the party in power out, as far as I can see, baring a vote of no confidence (is that right?). I'm rather disturbed by the fact that you seem to have an "inherited PM" now and while the US is looking at some type of major change (for the better one hopes), is there anything similar going on in the UK? Is there any way for the people to initiate this?


We have regular elections, just as you have, and like you guys, we generally end up with the party we least dislike winning. We are not to happy about the inherited PM, but hey, no-one seems to care that much, because there is little we can do about it anyway.

swreader wrote:
Obviously the example with which you started this is ridiculous--and suggests that there need to be some changes in public policy. We have our own shade of ridiculous--at least in my judgment. A 72 year old fighter pilot turned senator with a woman with 2 years experience in governing a state, no ideas or experience on foreign policy or really on national issues, and quite far right conservative as far as most women in this country. The thought of her stepping into the Presidency when she met her first foreign leader (in her whole life) today at a short conference while the President of Afghanistan was at the UN with no press permitted --scares the hell out of me.


The example with which I started this is not ridiculous, but a brief history of events in the 60's, thank you.
And to be honest, while they would not be my choice, a 72 year old Senator and a novice Alaskan Govenor might have some merit over past options that you have had. For example, a Hollywood B movie actor and a Peanut Farmer.
At least over here, we have career politicians to select from at election times.

swreader wrote:
But we are doing something about changing things, and other than gripe, is there a way for you all to as a nation force a new election?


In a word - NO.
As long as our political viewpoint is guided by the 'red top press' and Murdoch TV, there is absolutely no hope for us.

'Grumpy old man' enough for you?
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Postby mspanners » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:07 pm

Normally try to keep out of politics but the systems in the Democratic Countries are summed up quite nicely in one of Terry's books, Vetinari said "Democracy is a vote your self rich system" or something like that.......... and to some extent this is true.
As far as I can tell ALL the parties in the UK have no answers to the problems of the World (or in the UK for that matter) and are quite happy to get elected by the expedient of snipping at the mistakes of the other parties and spin.It is true, the least un-liked Party is the one that gets elected........the problem is this system is the best one that Mankind has at the moment even with all its faults.........Communism,Fascism or Rule by Royal Families have all been proven to be dead ends. I think we are stuck with this system, and will be for the foreseeable future until someone comes up with another mad idea* to free the people.

* Re Communism, fascism and The Royals..........
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Postby Jinx » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:18 pm

I wouldn't mind a dictator. At least we'd know where we stand.

There are solutions to our problem.
Conquest, would see us with a monarch or emporer who actually had power to direct the nation.
A revolution, would see us back to square one. Which ****hole do we put in charge?
Sadly both these solutions are terribly violent. For a non-violent solution we could amass a huge wealth to buy the country from our royals and current government. Though, lets face it, they'd only tax most of it and we'll be lucky if what's left will buy us a consolation round at the boozers.
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Postby chris.ph » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:24 pm

hasnt this all got a bit to political, we come on this site for a bit of fun not insurrection :)
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Postby swreader » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:53 pm

chris.ph wrote:hasnt this all got a bit to political, we come on this site for a bit of fun not insurrection :)


While obviously one has to be civil about expressing one's opinion, to reduce Terry Pratchett's works and their discussion "for a bit of fun" is to miss the point of the satiric nature of his novels. Both Going Postal
and Making Money are quite relevant to politics--and those are just the latest ones.

One of the objections I have to other sites is there idea of "fun" -- word games and the like. For a Prachett board, I expect something that may be fun, but has a little bit of content.

If you want pure fun-- look at the Games Thread. I particularly recommend the Editor's Desk for the Ankh-Morpork Times. Write a letter of complaint.
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Postby chris.ph » Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:59 pm

its a forum for a humourous book series not a forum on political debate. stop taking everything so seriously.
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Postby Tonyblack » Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:03 pm

There a heck of a lot more to the books than humour. There's real biting satire and yes, political comment.

Take Jingo for example - on the surface it's a funny book about a war against the Klatchians, but dig a bit deeper and you have one of the best anti-war novels I've ever read.

The books are set on another world, but they hold a mirror up to our own world.

As to whether political debate should be allowed - this is the Broken Drum and just about anything can be discussed here. As long as things are kept civil then there's no problem. :)
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Postby ColinEdwards » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:55 am

Had that original story been written before the War, it would have been presented as a positive message about a 71 year-old woman and her friends looking after their local community while the 'authorities' were distracted by larger and potentially more serious events elsewhere.

The modern media are as much to blame as politicians.

Too easily we all believe what we are told without questioning the agendas of those who tell us.


btw - hi Pusha - and welcome! :D
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Postby Quilpusha » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:14 pm

ColinEdwards wrote:btw - hi Pusha - and welcome! :D


Hi Colin - and thanks.
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Postby Tonyblack » Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:19 pm

ColinEdwards wrote:Had that original story been written before the War, it would have been presented as a positive message about a 71 year-old woman and her friends looking after their local community while the 'authorities' were distracted by larger and potentially more serious events elsewhere.

The modern media are as much to blame as politicians.

Too easily we all believe what we are told without questioning the agendas of those who tell us.


btw - hi Pusha - and welcome! :D
Jingo was written before both Gulf Wars.

Terry generally doesn't write about actual enevts, he writes about people and people will keep on making the same mistakes. :lol:
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Postby Tonyblack » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:23 pm

:oops: ooops - My bad. :oops: Jingo was written after Gulf War 1 and before Gulf War 2 (Son of Gulf War)
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