Any Questions?

Moderators: Jason, Toothy, Tonyblack

Re: Watch People

Postby pip » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:52 pm

Hunter wrote:Hi again.
I have 2 small questions. 1. How do you spell sgt. Colon? Is it like /cologne/ or like /cullen/? Or something entirely different from my guesses?
and 2. What is a Lance-Constable? What do I put in translation for it? Is it about around Major and the low grade normal soldier?

Well Lance Constable is the lowest rank in the Watch anyway. it seems to be the automatic rank of any new recruit except for a few special circumstances.

Colon would be pronounced like - Coal - on . It could be taken as a play on a punctuation mark - :
or as the last bits of the indigestion system before the exit ;)
'There is no future for e-books, because they are not books. E-books smell like burned fuel.'
Ray Bradbury (RIP)
User avatar
pip
Member
 
Posts: 9385
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:20 am
Location: KILDARE

Re: Any Questions?

Postby Tonyblack » Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:55 pm

Colon is pronounced like the punctuation mark colon : <-- or colon as in part of the large intestine. The second meaning could suggest that he was part of an anus. :mrgreen:

In The Fifth Elephant, when Vimes goes to Bonk in Uberwald, he meets a sergeant who reminds him of Colon, named Doppelpunkt. That word is the German for the punctuation mark called a colon in English.

Lance Constable is a mixture of an army rank and a police rank. In the army it would be Lance Corporal and in the police it would be just Constable. As far as I am aware, Terry made up this rank for his books. As a lance corporal is the next step up from a private, this suggests that a lance constable is one step up in rank from a constable.

I hope that helps. :)
"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
User avatar
Tonyblack
Moderator
 
Posts: 29217
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:29 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Thanks X4

Postby Hunter » Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:34 pm

Well, crap. Looks like I'm in trouble here. Because although they (both Colons) mean differently and are written all the same, they're completely different in Farsi.
Colon (mark) in Farsi: Donoqte (Do means Two {like spanish dos} and Noqte means Dot,Period}
Colon (anus thing): Pasroodeh (Pas meaning Back and Roodeh meaning Large Intestine)
Our language is pretty explanatory. They (Farsi Makers) don't usually choose or rather make a new word something that comes their way, instead they adjoin describing words to make a phrase. It's a real pain in the neck for us translators.

And I want to somehow bring the original purpose back in my version. You know what I mean? I need a word to be just like Colon, have 2 (fairly insulting) meanings and still be a proper last name.
I might have to completely change the darned thing. Just like what I (am forced to) do with proverbs like Bob's Your Uncle. I had to change it to (Your Master's your company) and it cooked up another trouble when King (of dwarfs) says back, "Quiet sure Stronginthearm is my uncle (not Bob)". But I managed. I have to, eventually.
Thanks a lot (again).
Funny Fact, Again in Farsi is "Dobare /dow buh reh/" and again DO is 2 and Dobare means For the Second Time. and When it's the third time you're saying Again, you're in trouble because the person you're thanking for the third time will point out it's not 2Bare, it's Sebare , Se=3.
So thank you guys 4Bare!
A LIFE WITHOUT DANGER AND LAUGHTER IS A LIFE NOT WORTH LIVING...
User avatar
Hunter
New member
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:54 pm
Location: IRI

Re: Any Questions?

Postby Tonyblack » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:23 pm

Yes, I think you are going to have to do some rewriting as well as translating. :)
"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
User avatar
Tonyblack
Moderator
 
Posts: 29217
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:29 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

َANOTHER

Postby Hunter » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:14 pm

This one question is more like a puzzle. Or a research experiment. Or a "Who got time fo' dat" kind of favour.
I'm required a sort of prologue for this translated book. And in it, I have to tell the readers the things they need to know before reading the book. For example who's Ms Weatherwax or Sibil or Swamp Dragons, or Death.
These are the contents I already included:
The Universe and Great A'tuin and elephants and all.
Sybil Ramkin
Ramtops Mountain
Dwarfs
Swamp Dragons
Urangutan Librarian
Death
Witches and Wizards
Ankh Morpork short history (from book 1 to 7)
The Animals that are referred in this book.
Lord Vetinary
Unseen university and it's members.
Lady Palm and her house of you know.
Watch Characters
The Shades
The Palace
Unseen University
..............


So, What else is there the reader should know (if hasn't read the pre. books) and is better to know?
A LIFE WITHOUT DANGER AND LAUGHTER IS A LIFE NOT WORTH LIVING...
User avatar
Hunter
New member
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:54 pm
Location: IRI

Re: Any Questions?

Postby Tonyblack » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:39 pm

Hmmm . . . I'm not totally sure you need to explain. No one ever explained who was who to me, except Terry when I read the books. That's the joy of reading - discovering the Discworld for yourself. :)

By the way, you mentioned Rosie Palm in your list. You may not know this, but Rosie Palm and her five daughters is a euphemism that existed before Terry created the character. It's a rather rude euphemism, so I would suggest to anyone interested, to only Google it is you are an adult. :naughty:
"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
User avatar
Tonyblack
Moderator
 
Posts: 29217
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:29 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Re: Any Questions?

Postby Hunter » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:06 pm

rofl! I just... How could I not... omg it's really... good god what do I do now! It just got worse! Because we're not allowed to refer to you know.. and then again I can't (for the life of me) censor anything I'm translating. And then again, it's seriously hilarious. Pitty we don't have such jokes in Farsi and unless I explain it, they won't get it.

As for the list. The previous books havent been translated into farsi and (except 1 & 2 but from another publisher and those were not very good and popular and they're also expensive) and my readers' is going to be their first experience with terry pratchett's discworld (at least most of them). When I suggested to let's begin from the beginning they denied and told me I had to start at book 8 (which is first NightWatch book) and just explain to people what has happened before and at that, only the things that are related to the book. That's why I'm occupied form every angle. I mean, translating such a huge venture isn't easy as is. Start giving extra orders from out of the menu and you'll have a ****storm of a dish!
God help me on my journey!!!
A LIFE WITHOUT DANGER AND LAUGHTER IS A LIFE NOT WORTH LIVING...
User avatar
Hunter
New member
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:54 pm
Location: IRI

Re: Any Questions?

Postby =Tamar » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:30 am

Hunter wrote:rofl! I just... How could I not... omg it's really... good god what do I do now! It just got worse! Because we're not allowed to refer to you know.. and then again I can't (for the life of me) censor anything I'm translating. And then again, it's seriously hilarious. Pity we don't have such jokes in Farsi and unless I explain it, they won't get it.

As for the list. The previous books havent been translated into farsi and (except 1 & 2 but from another publisher and those were not very good and popular and they're also expensive) and my readers' is going to be their first experience with terry pratchett's discworld (at least most of them). When I suggested to let's begin from the beginning they denied and told me I had to start at book 8 (which is first NightWatch book) and just explain to people what has happened before and at that, only the things that are related to the book.


I think that some things should not be in the Prologue because they were written for the first time in Guards!Guards! and the reader discovers them as part of the book. For instance, although there was an occasional vague reference to the City Watch, the individual men in the Watch were not described. While you may need to describe the general idea of a City Watch as an early kind of police force with very limited powers, you don't need to give personal descriptions of Captain Vimes and his subordinates Nobby and Colon because they did not exist on paper until this book was written. They were new to all the people who had read all the earlier books. The same is true of Lady Sybil and the swamp dragons. Although the witches in general do not appear, there is one reference to Miss Garlick, who is Magrat, though she doesn't do any witchcraft, so you probably have to tell who she is and perhaps point out that in the Disc cultures the witches are more like respectable local doctors and social workers, but I'm fairly sure that Granny Weatherwax and Nanny Ogg are not mentioned at all. Lord Vetinari probably should be explained because his rulership is like that of the Medici in the city-states of Renaissance Italy; without that knowledge, his strange combination of great power with occasional apparent weakness could be very puzzling.

I don't think you need to censor anything. Just do as direct a translation of the name "Rosie Palm" as possible, and if the readers choose to find the joke, then they will find it without your help. If they don't, there's no harm done. Many people don't get all the jokes, even those that seem obvious to others.

But that is just my opinion, and I don't know your audience.

Your job will be much harder when you get to Men At Arms...
=Tamar
Member
 
Posts: 657
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 1:16 am

Re: Any Questions?

Postby =Tamar » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:53 am

I don't know whether these puns could be made to work outside of English: According to the footnote, Carrot is called that because he is broad-shouldered, but I think his name also works as a pun on the word "karat" as a measure of gold quality. Similarly, Minty Rocksmacker's first name could refer to mint-flavoring, implying she's sweet, but it can also refer to the process of making gold coins at the Mint.
=Tamar
Member
 
Posts: 657
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 1:16 am

Re: Any Questions?

Postby Hunter » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:56 pm

=Tamar wrote:I don't know whether these puns could be made to work outside of English: According to the footnote, Carrot is called that because he is broad-shouldered, but I think his name also works as a pun on the word "karat" as a measure of gold quality. Similarly, Minty Rocksmacker's first name could refer to mint-flavoring, implying she's sweet, but it can also refer to the process of making gold coins at the Mint.

Oh, I didn't mention those. But unfortunately they don't.
Carrot is Havij in Farsi but karat is the same thing. And Minty is Na'na in Farsi but Mint is Zarabkhane!
It would have been really nice to be able to do so. You see the He is Carrot or a Karat (of gold) and wants to hit the Mint to become Money. Funny.

I think that some things should not be in the Prologue because they were written for the first time in Guards!Guards! and the reader discovers them as part of the book. For instance, although there was an occasional vague reference to the City Watch, the individual men in the Watch were not described. While you may need to describe the general idea of a City Watch as an early kind of police force with very limited powers, you don't need to give personal descriptions of Captain Vimes and his subordinates Nobby and Colon because they did not exist on paper until this book was written. They were new to all the people who had read all the earlier books. The same is true of Lady Sybil and the swamp dragons. Although the witches in general do not appear, there is one reference to Miss Garlick, who is Magrat, though she doesn't do any witchcraft, so you probably have to tell who she is and perhaps point out that in the Disc cultures the witches are more like respectable local doctors and social workers, but I'm fairly sure that Granny Weatherwax and Nanny Ogg are not mentioned at all. Lord Vetinari probably should be explained because his rulership is like that of the Medici in the city-states of Renaissance Italy; without that knowledge, his strange combination of great power with occasional apparent weakness could be very puzzling.


Thanks. That really helped a lot.
And again I didn't know the Italy part from Lord Vetinari but I should have known better, he's got an Italian name. I usually do some research by the names. But when I opened the Lord Vetinari Wiki Page (from L-Space) the article was so huge I just saved it for a less busy time.
But for something like Urdo Van Pew I did the search and got the name right. Urdo is Spanish for Cook up (make up) Van is, well, I'm not sure which one of many meanings is referred here, and Pew is simply pew, as in funky stink, right?
So Translated his name something like Sir Smell A Lot :D

I don't think you need to censor anything. Just do as direct a translation of the name "Rosie Palm" as possible, and if the readers choose to find the joke, then they will find it without your help. If they don't, there's no harm done. Many people don't get all the jokes, even those that seem obvious to others.


Actually that's what I figured. I'm just gonna go with my guts, based on Sir Terry's.


Thanks for your help and guidance very much for the time you took and your help. It was really useful. I'm glad I found this place, and you guys. I'll make sure to thank you all properly in my book.
oh, one more thing:

Your job will be much harder when you get to Men At Arms...

And OMG!
A LIFE WITHOUT DANGER AND LAUGHTER IS A LIFE NOT WORTH LIVING...
User avatar
Hunter
New member
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:54 pm
Location: IRI

Re: Any Questions?

Postby Who's Wee Dug » Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:10 am

If someone takes a pew it aslo means they are having a sit down/rest as a Pew is a long church seat. :mrgreen:

For the stinky part it also came from a cartoon. Pepé Le Pew is a cartoon character in the Warner Bros. Looney Tunes and
Merrie Melodies series of cartoons, first introduced in 1945. A French skunk that ...
He willnae tak' a drink! I think he's deid! , on the other hand though A Midgie in yir hand is worth twa up yir kilt.
User avatar
Who's Wee Dug
Member
 
Posts: 15110
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Stirlingshire, Scotland

Re: Any Questions?

Postby Tonyblack » Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:15 am

Guards! Guards! is a great book to start from, and I often suggest that book as an introduction to Discworld. Carrot is the key to this as we get to see Ankh-Morpork through the eyes of someone who doesn't understand the city and how it works. We get to meet the original members of the Watch and Lady Sybil. The way the guilds work and the whole thing about the Thieves Guild is explained. Plus you get a taste of the larger Discworld with the dwarfs etc. I don't think it needs too much introduction because Carrot does that for you. :)
"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
User avatar
Tonyblack
Moderator
 
Posts: 29217
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:29 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Re: Any Questions?

Postby Tonyblack » Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:22 am

Incidentally, the "joke" about Vetinari's name is a play on words. As mentioned, there was the Medici family and Medici sounds a bit like Medicine therefore Vetinari sounds like Veterinary and animal doctor. This is why Vetinari was given the nickname of "dog botherer" when he was in school.

You have obviously found L-Space - have you checked out the Annotations section? This is a book by book, page by page attempt to explain the jokes and references in the books.
"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
User avatar
Tonyblack
Moderator
 
Posts: 29217
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:29 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Re: Any Questions?

Postby =Tamar » Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:40 am

Who's Wee Dug wrote:If someone takes a pew it also means they are having a sit down/rest as a Pew is a long church seat. :mrgreen:

I never heard that used outside of a church reference. Live and learn.

Who's Wee Dug wrote:For the stinky part it also came from a cartoon. Pepé Le Pew is a cartoon character in the Warner Bros. Looney Tunes and
Merrie Melodies series of cartoons, first introduced in 1945. A French skunk that ...

I believe it predates Pepe le Pew. Internet sources say that:

Pew, or P.U. (which doesn't stand for anything, it's just a way to emphasize how it sounds):
1) It's a shortened term for puteo, which is Latin for "to stink, be redolent, or smell bad." [original poster said she] actually called a professor of Latin at the University of Florida to verify this one.

2) It's actually spelled "piu," but is often pronounced as "pee-yew". It's root is the Indo-European word "pu," meaning to rot or decay. A lot of other languages use this root word and have the same general meaning.

Sources: http://www.mindlesscrap.com/stumpme/03-01.htm
Another person said: "the french say "ça pue" " and said that it was picked up by American women who went to France during the Roaring '20s.
So it may be more directly from French.
=Tamar
Member
 
Posts: 657
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 1:16 am

Re: Any Questions?

Postby Hunter » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:01 am

WOW. Great information. This place is growing on me. Not only am I learning what I'm looking for, I'm also gaining a bonus on the side ^,^ Viva Monsieur Terry ( I know! )


Tonyblack wrote:Incidentally, the "joke" about Vetinari's name is a play on words. As mentioned, there was the Medici family and Medici sounds a bit like Medicine therefore Vetinari sounds like Veterinary and animal doctor. This is why Vetinari was given the nickname of "dog botherer" when he was in school.

Yes I could see Vetinari's a lot like Veterinarian, but I couldn't possibly put the pieces together for I hadn't had all. Because I'm not really a fan or savant (correct use?) of history whatsoever.

You have obviously found L-Space - have you checked out the Annotations section? This is a book by book, page by page attempt to explain the jokes and references in the books.


Actually, no, I didn't know about that bit, which is a really hugely great bit, and it's gonna boost my research speed and legitimacy by a large amount. Thank you. I mean, that's not enough just to say it like that. And I really don't know how to thank you Tony. I'm only 22 pages into translating the book and I'm already in your (and other fellas') debt knee deep.
I found L-space when I was searching for the meaning of it (L-space) and I wanted to know what was it. I'm not quiet sure I understood it by the way. Correct me if I'm wrong here. It says it is short for Library-Space, and is a theory suggesting that all of the libraries there are and to be, already exist in the ultimate existing space, the reality, and there isn't going to be anything new added to it, book, chapter, page, paragraph, line, or even a word, nothing new is going to be added to the current collection, Either that or it was something like no new story is going to be created, whatever is being made and will be in the future, is already in the current books, the words are only burrowed from the old books for the new ones.
right?
But, still, I haven't totally figured the first lines of the book. You remember the topic, right? Where another member asked what did Sir Terry mean by Schrodinger's Paperback, and you explained it's something that was here a moment ago but is gone now that you want to refer to it. (By the way I was searching Schrodinger's Paperback when I found that topic and eventually this forum. Right around the time I found L-Space), anyway, I digress, I'm a writer what do you expect?
Where was I?
aha.
Can you once and for all explain to me that whole thing?
His dedication in Guards Guards, saying thank to all the people who laughed at and helped with the Idea L-Space. Too bad we never used schrodinger's paperback. That's where the dragons are. not dead. not sl... (i got the rest :P)

Sorry to talk too much, I'm a real talkative chatterbox, you should be happy you don't know me in person and I'm not fluent in english... or else...
A LIFE WITHOUT DANGER AND LAUGHTER IS A LIFE NOT WORTH LIVING...
User avatar
Hunter
New member
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:54 pm
Location: IRI

PreviousNext

Return to Discworld novels

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests