Raising Steam *Warning Spoilers*

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Re: Raising Steam *Warning Spoilers*

Postby The Mad Collector » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:13 pm

You've missed a couple of books. For the Vimes bits you need to read Thud and for the train crossing you need Making Money
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Re: Raising Steam *Warning Spoilers*

Postby Tonyblack » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:36 pm

Welcome to the site, Tim. :) And yes, what Mad said.

I have to say that I worked out that bridge crossing before they even got there. :lol:
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Re: Raising Steam *Warning Spoilers*

Postby timdownieuk » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:37 pm

The Mad Collector wrote:You've missed a couple of books. For the Vimes bits you need to read Thud and for the train crossing you need Making Money


Thanks for that but I was really after brief explanations/reminders. I've read both of those but my memory ain't what it used to be.

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Re: Raising Steam *Warning Spoilers*

Postby Tonyblack » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:50 pm

I think we are trying to avoid spoilers for people that haven't read the books concerned. :)

So if you haven't read Thud or Making Money, do not open the spoiler below.

Spoiler: show
The Blackboard Monitor bit was a throw away remark Vimes made in response to his various titles - he said something like, I was also Blackboard Monitor when I was in school - or words to that effect. It backfired somewhat as dwarfs were horrified that someone would be proud to admit that they deliberately erased words that had been written.

In Thud, Vimes became possessed by the Summoning Dark. It controlled his body and nearly killed him in an effort to use him to seek justice when it had been summoned by the dying dwarf. It entered Vimes's body when he thought he scratched himself on a door. When Vimes had ultimately controlled the Summoning Dark and effectively threw it out, it left its mark on his arm. It isn't a tattoo, it's more like scar tissue.

In Making Money an army of golems was discovered and, somewhat like a nuclear deterrent, it was put to one side as a sort of threat to any other country that might decide to cause trouble with Ankh-Morpork. The golems were buried outside the city and were supposed to stay there by Vetinari's orders. Moist used the golems - got them to march across country and to support the weight of the tracks as the train went over the bridge that wasn't there. Hence Vetinari's comments to Moist at the end of the book.
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Re: Raising Steam *Warning Spoilers*

Postby timdownieuk » Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:41 pm

Tonyblack wrote:I think we are trying to avoid spoilers for people that haven't read the books concerned. :)

So if you haven't read Thud or Making Money, do not open the spoiler below.

Spoiler: show
The Blackboard Monitor bit was a throw away remark Vimes made in response to his various titles - he said something like, I was also Blackboard Monitor when I was in school - or words to that effect. It backfired somewhat as dwarfs were horrified that someone would be proud to admit that they deliberately erased words that had been written.

In Thud, Vimes became possessed by the Summoning Dark. It controlled his body and nearly killed him in an effort to use him to seek justice when it had been summoned by the dying dwarf. It entered Vimes's body when he thought he scratched himself on a door. When Vimes had ultimately controlled the Summoning Dark and effectively threw it out, it left its mark on his arm. It isn't a tattoo, it's more like scar tissue.

In Making Money an army of golems was discovered and, somewhat like a nuclear deterrent, it was put to one side as a sort of threat to any other country that might decide to cause trouble with Ankh-Morpork. The golems were buried outside the city and were supposed to stay there by Vetinari's orders. Moist used the golems - got them to march across country and to support the weight of the tracks as the train went over the bridge that wasn't there. Hence Vetinari's comments to Moist at the end of the book.


Thanks. I can see I'll have to re-read THUD, don't recall too much about it. I knew about the golems but that doesn't explain the "standing on thin air" (or "thick mist") moment. I don't recall golems being able to float or fly.

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Re: Raising Steam *Warning Spoilers*

Postby Tonyblack » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:11 pm

They don't need to be able to fly or stand on thin air. You just need enough of them to stand on each other. As for the mist - Moist didn't want anyone knowing he had used the golems, so it was necessary to create a smoke scree - so to speak.
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Re: Raising Steam *Warning Spoilers*

Postby Molokov » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:06 pm

Quick addendum to the above: The Blackboard Monitor moniker was first mentioned in The Fifth Elephant (as well as the first appearance of King Rhys Rhysson and various other parts of dwarf politics). Thud covers the Summoning Dark, and Making Money the "gold" golems.
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Re: Raising Steam *Warning Spoilers*

Postby Tonyblack » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:12 pm

You're right! :D

I thought it was as early as that, but confess I wasn't sure.
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Re: Raising Steam *Warning Spoilers*

Postby sheilaj » Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:58 pm

I saw the violence in this book as a kind of musing/warning on the theme of "what does it take". How much can a good man bear before he ceases to me a "good" (non violent) man (or woman of course). I thought it was interesting that the book was written more or less contemporaneously with the Dr Who story arc on the theme "When a good man goes to war", but maybe that's just me and it was co-incidental.

As someone who reached 60 this year, I also understood a lot of the character changes, including Vetinari's desire for a last hurrah. Some (most?) people do become different people as they get older but the core of the person of their youth is still there and its a great pleasure to let that person out occasionally.

I just really enjoyed this book... For me there was the sense of gathering speed like the train, with many small vignettes as though we were looking in carriage windows as the train flashed by. The more vintage style (to me at least) of writing suited the subject. I think its not the least of TP's skills to be able to moderate his writing style to suit the theme of the book.

TP himself uses the words "last hurrah" and I did sense that in the book, but as TP also has written "I atn't dead"
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Re: Raising Steam *Warning Spoilers*

Postby simmonds91 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:03 am

I really don't get this notion that using violence means a person isn't good, if they use violence they are no longer good... i understand the "good" is a metaphor or whatever but i still don't undertsand why... since when does protecting yourself or doing what you can to protect what needs protecting using force a bad thing?

just me ranting, don't pay too much attention :lol:
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Re: Raising Steam *Warning Spoilers*

Postby Katblossom » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:40 pm

Sheila J - Yes it was excellent how he made tge pace of the book reflect thesubject matter, I enjoyed those vignettes , like the travel writer and so on. last hurrah? Maybe, Vimes is the character that he seems to relate more to or seems to reflect a narrator's voice at times.
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Re: Raising Steam *Warning Spoilers*

Postby alanso » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:28 pm

Okay I'm a little late to the party, due to avoiding spoilers and losing my password here..

I think this is my favourite Pratchett book for quite some time, which may add to the 'co-written by Pratchett' theory? As there has been a definite slide in recent years. In fact, it's my favourite since the last Moist novel.

It is a little jarring that it is as much about Simnel as it is Moist. I think I would have preferred either one to have been a supporting character to the other, rather than have them both as a kind of co-lead setup. It also felt like a book of transition, is it still the plan for Rihanna to take over?

Also, man, you guys get DEEP into this stuff. As much as I like someone, there will always be someone more dedicated than I
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Re: Raising Steam *Warning Spoilers*

Postby Molokov » Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:16 pm

There are no plans for Rhianna to take over writing Discworld novels. That was misinterpreted by over enthusiastic journalists. What Terry & Rhianna meant in that interview is that she will take over being responsible for licensing and spin-offs of Discworld material after Terry's death, not that she would be writing more novels. She's come out and said that explicitly after the original misleading article was published.
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Re: Raising Steam *Warning Spoilers*

Postby The Mad Collector » Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:58 pm

Yes, that she will protect and represent the legacy is what I understood as well. She would write Discworld storylines for dramatic purposes not that she would write Discworld novels. So Narrativia (if anything ever happens there) would be largely Rhianna would not be a surprise but a new book would be Terry (mainly at least)
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Re: Raising Steam *Warning Spoilers*

Postby alanso » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:40 am

Ahh that would make more sense. Steeling myself for a time when we can only revisit the existing Discworld..
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