Raising Steam

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Re: Raising Steam

Postby Bouncy Castle » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:07 am

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Raising Steam

Postby =Tamar » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:20 am

DreadfulKata wrote:After rereading Thud! (where the Undertaking was first set up), I was left wondering about the whole 'steam' aspect: one of the plot points established in T! is that one of the dwarvish devices discovered and given to the city is basically a perpetual motion machine. [SNIP] So the impression given is that Vetinari's having the beginnings of a notion to use the device to create an Ankh-Morpork Underground. No need for steam trains.

Personally I wouldn't mind if the idea of the dwarvish engine has been thrown out: it immediately seemed a little shark-jumpy to introduce a perpetual motion machine to Ankh-Morpork. Everything that has made A-M great over the years is from the characters having to address real-life problems and Pratchett coming up with hilarious and inventive ideas for that.


That Device was shown to be rather dangerous (Thud); perhaps they won't be able to find a safe way to use it within the city limits. Or maybe the steam engine won't be used for vehicles. I believe there has already been foam coming from the coffee shop in SM (though that may have been entirely magical), and I believe they may have steam heat in parts of UU (TSOD#1) - how else would a big boiler in one place heat most of the university? I'm more curious about the inventor(s); the Omnian version was a hundred or two hundred years ago (I think the uncertainty is canon), so it's unlikely to be the source.
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Re: Raising Steam

Postby =Tamar » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:55 pm

raisindot wrote:Okay, here are my predictions about the book, without knowing anything about the plot. Come back here in October and see if any are right.
[SNIP]
10. If Moist and Adorabelle are not married by this time, the whole conflict between preservation and progress will drive a wedge between them that will be magically resolved when they both find themselves on the same side at the end.


Isn't the Ankh-Morpork version of marriage sort of "oh well, if you insist"? If so, then they are pretty much married. It was indicated in MM that they had been living together, both in his Post Office apartment and in the rooms at the Bank.
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Re: Raising Steam

Postby raisindot » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:10 pm

=Tamar wrote:
raisindot wrote:Okay, here are my predictions about the book, without knowing anything about the plot. Come back here in October and see if any are right.
[SNIP]
10. If Moist and Adorabelle are not married by this time, the whole conflict between preservation and progress will drive a wedge between them that will be magically resolved when they both find themselves on the same side at the end.


Isn't the Ankh-Morpork version of marriage sort of "oh well, if you insist"? If so, then they are pretty much married. It was indicated in MM that they had been living together, both in his Post Office apartment and in the rooms at the Bank.


I don't see that. Marriage is very much an honored and important institution in AM. Sacaricia is apparently married (most likely to Wm. de Worde, although this is never clear. The marriage of Sam Vimes and Lady Sybil was a huge event. Fred Colon's 'never see each other" marriage is a running joke. Detritus and Ruby are clearly married (in however way trolls do that). Certainly all of the aristocratic families are married (although this is often more for tying together bloodlines and fortunes than anything else). Mr. Bent and whatshername make a very important point that they're getting married as soon as possible. Harry King is clearly married and devoted to his wife. Adorabelle's parents are clearly married. Indeed, there really seems to be only three states of relationships in AM: Most common: Married; Almost as common: Single men; Less common: couples who get together in the book and will one day be married (Juliet, Trevor) and, most uncommonly, interspecies relationships, often chaste (Angua/Carrot, Nutt/Glinda, Vetinara/Margolotta).

And I don't see any indicuation in MM where Moist and Adorabelle were living together. In fact, throughout MM events kept happening in the book that prevent them from getting in a bit of fun. Adorabelle comes from a very strict family and most likely still lives at home when she's not digging in the field looking for lost golems. Certainly there wouldn't have been enough room at the post office for her to live with him (and Mrs. Maccalariat would certainly not tolerate such a situation) and his tenure at the bank was such a short one (only a few days) that she wouldn't have time to move in. And if they had been living together, Gladys would have been aware of the relationship and thus would not have developed her crush on him.
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Re: Raising Steam

Postby =Tamar » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:25 am

This has shifted to MM, but I'm responding here because I'm not sure it would link if I changed the subject line, and because who knows, it may prove to have some bearing on the events of Raising Steam.

raisindot wrote:
=Tamar wrote:It was indicated in MM that they [edited for clarity: Moist and Adora Belle] had been living together, both in his Post Office apartment and in the rooms at the Bank.


I don't see any indication in MM where Moist and Adora Belle were living together. In fact, throughout MM events kept happening in the book that prevent them from getting in a bit of fun. Adora Belle comes from a very strict family and most likely still lives at home when she's not digging in the field looking for lost golems. Certainly there wouldn't have been enough room at the post office for her to live with him (and Mrs. Maccalariat would certainly not tolerate such a situation) and his tenure at the bank was such a short one (only a few days) that she wouldn't have time to move in. And if they had been living together, Gladys would have been aware of the relationship and thus would not have developed her crush on him.


I'm not so sure about Gladys; I think she didn't get the book on etiquette until after Adora Belle had already left on her expedition, before MM began. She may have developed the crush before then.

The hints I saw in MM are subtle. Here's what I found on looking through the book again; page numbers re from the US hardcover edition.

p.7 "What Mr Lipwig does to get out of breath in his own room is his own affair." He was alone, but this indicates that the male part of the subculture of the post office would officially mind their own business and ignore any visitors he might have, while no doubt gossiping mightily.
p.247 Adora: "I'm going home for a bath." Point to you, they apparently are not living together. But I still say they are sleeping together, no matter what Mrs Maccalariat might say.

About Gladys:
p.269 Moist tells Gladys that Adora is his fiancee and will be spending a lot of time at the bank. Gladys's eyes dim.
p.275 Gladys is cooking dinner for Moist and is defiant about it. Why? Peggy is looking for Mr Fusspot and presumably has asked Gladys to watch the pot, but why didn't Gladys say "I'm watching the pot while Peggy is searching for the dog"? "I'm cooking dinner" is an attempt to claim a relationship with Moist, and this is right after she found out that Moist has a fiancee.

The strongest evidence:
p.298 "Lying here now in the darkness of the bank..." "He was alone because Adora Belle was spending a night in the cells for assaulting an officer of the Watch."

p.362 [and the first page of Chapter 13) "...Moist von Lipwig woke up...but woke up alone, which was less pleasing." (He's back in the Post Office while the bank is being investigated.)
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Re: Raising Steam

Postby raisindot » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:35 pm

=Tamar wrote:This has shifted to MM, but I'm responding here because I'm not sure it would link if I changed the subject line, and because who knows, it may prove to have some bearing on the events of Raising Steam.


You're right, this is more about Making Money, so I've posted my response in that topic, where it belongs.
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Re: Raising Steam

Postby =Tamar » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:17 pm

Back to Raising Steam, and a few speculations:

See the photo of Sir Terry doing research into steam engines, and guessing that a steam engine will be involved somehow... Given that Hex became conscious, and that golems have become independent, what are the odds that even a mechanical steam engine, on the intensely magical Discworld, might do the same? At the very least, they ought to be careful to keep it away from the university dumps.
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Re: Raising Steam

Postby chris.ph » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:41 pm

raising steam is 10 quid with free postage to preorder on amazon :D :D my order is in :D :dance: :dance:
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Re: Raising Steam

Postby =Tamar » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:21 pm

chris.ph wrote:raising steam is 10 quid with free postage to preorder on amazon :D :D my order is in :D :dance: :dance:

I wish the free shipping included the USA. I notice there is no cover photo yet.
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Re: Raising Steam

Postby Bouncy Castle » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:35 am

It's nine quid and instant delivery with Kindle!
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Re: Raising Steam

Postby Molokov » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:41 am

=Tamar wrote:I notice there is no cover photo yet.


Paul Kidby is still working on it! On July 17, he posted a photo of his paints to Facebook with the comment "Painting the colour rough for new Discworld novel 'Raising Steam' today!"

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater
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Re: Raising Steam

Postby Sister Jennifer » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:39 am

Molokov wrote:Paul Kidby is still working on it! On July 17, he posted a photo of his paints to Facebook with the comment "Painting the colour rough for new Discworld novel 'Raising Steam' today!"

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater


If you click on his page you can see the finished cover. Lots to look at. Astounding artwork as usual.
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Re: Raising Steam

Postby JAK » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:17 am

Really good cover but to my mind not Discworldly - my main fear is that the image is too similar to something that took the Roundworld’s industrial revolution 100-150 years to evolve into, so with Moist as the main character I can’t get to grips with how this will have happened virtually overnight – It’s not as if the paddleboats of Snuff had a primitive form of steam power that could have been perfected - hopefully the book will full explain.
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Re: Raising Steam

Postby pip » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:20 am

I'm assuming its a huge part to do with the Devices as found in Thud. This would make sense in relation to a massive technological leap forward as the Dwarves had used such things to move stuff underground.
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Re: Raising Steam

Postby Tonyblack » Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:14 pm

Didn't Ned Simnel's Combination Harvester in Reaper Man, work by steam? :think:
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