Artemis Fowl Books to be made into Movies

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Re: Artemis Fowl Books to be made into Movies

Postby michelanCello » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:39 pm

Dotsie wrote:My opinion also, book 5 is manageable but the next 3 are instantly forgettable. Page by page even.

My thoughts exactly (except the last one, which I haven't read yet), book 5 was all right till the end, I didn't much like that...
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Re: Artemis Fowl Books to be made into Movies

Postby The Mad Collector » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:10 am

OK agreement from two people whose opinions I trust. I'm stopping at book four :D
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Re: Artemis Fowl Books to be made into Movies

Postby =Tamar » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:39 pm

I stopped at book one. I really dislike the entire concept, and I feel that promoting it in film is reprehensible. Film is a form of brainwashing - dark room, light on a screen flashing at a hypnotic rate, images going directly to the subconscious... it's been bad news for decades but this series is not an improvement. At least when it's only in books people have to actually do the work of reading, and the forebrain has a chance to get involved.
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Re: Artemis Fowl Books to be made into Movies

Postby Dotsie » Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:21 pm

Are you worried that people will be brainwashed into believing in fairies?
What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!
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Re: Artemis Fowl Books to be made into Movies

Postby chuckie » Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:59 pm

I already believe in fairies :D
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Re: Artemis Fowl Books to be made into Movies

Postby Who's Wee Dug » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:14 pm

chuckie wrote:I already believe in fairies :D

Don't frequent Docks do they, :?: :?:
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Re: Artemis Fowl Books to be made into Movies

Postby michelanCello » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:48 pm

=Tamar wrote:I stopped at book one. I really dislike the entire concept, and I feel that promoting it in film is reprehensible. Film is a form of brainwashing - dark room, light on a screen flashing at a hypnotic rate, images going directly to the subconscious... it's been bad news for decades but this series is not an improvement. At least when it's only in books people have to actually do the work of reading, and the forebrain has a chance to get involved.

I don't really understand... it's just a story, it's up to you to like it or not.
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Re: Artemis Fowl Books to be made into Movies

Postby Catch-up » Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:21 am

Bouncy Castle wrote:Oh, they're great, Suzanne. If you get the chance you should give them a go.

And the kids might like them as well!! Not sure how old yours are, but they're written for children.


I'll bump it up on my list then! Maybe I'll read it to the girls after we finish Wintersmith.
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Re: Artemis Fowl Books to be made into Movies

Postby chuckie » Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:44 am

Who's Wee Dug wrote:
chuckie wrote:I already believe in fairies :D

Don't frequent Docks do they, :?: :?:

No, they're in the brambles. :D
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Re: Artemis Fowl Books to be made into Movies

Postby =Tamar » Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:30 pm

Dotsie wrote:Are you worried that people will be brainwashed into believing in fairies?

No, I worry about the glorification of a criminal and the whole "end justifies the means" theme. Making the criminal a child doesn't soften it or make it less likely to affect the kids' minds, it just makes it worse. Kids learn what they see, and the darkened room of the movie theatre embeds the experience and makes it harder to counteract. At least when they're watching tv at home there're the rest of the surroundings - lights, furniture, usually other people - to remind them that it really is "just a movie" (and even then, some kids believe every word and image is true - I told the story in 'when do kids understand the concept of fiction'). I've seen the same things in Disney movies ever since the 1950s - "cheating is okay if you're cute", "it's funny for kids to swear like adults", etc. - and watched how that has been so built into the behavior of the audience that they don't even notice it now.

I don't like the Artemis Fowl stories. They are better written than some, but the main character is a criminal.
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Re: Artemis Fowl Books to be made into Movies

Postby michelanCello » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:20 pm

Artemis goes through a huge process in the series and he has his own morality I suppose... it's a bit like the Godfather, really - "My father is no different than any powerful man, any man with power, like a president or senator. " He has his own little world and he has his own rules in it. Which doesn't mean that it makes him less of a criminal, but that's the beauty of story-telling, that people want to choose somebody they can sympathise with and the Don is such a character (whereas, if you look at Michael, he turnes out to be a nasty bully that nobody likes - same power, different characters).
I think the story doesn't glorify the deeds of a child criminal, it shows that even criminals - regardless of their age - can have a good side in them, have feelings and that you shouldn't judge at first sight. I can't recall any part of the book stating that stealing or kidnapping people is a good thing. For what it's worth, I found him always pretty annoying. But you always have Holly, good old Holly to set things right. And Foaly of course :D
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Re: Artemis Fowl Books to be made into Movies

Postby The Mad Collector » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:39 pm

=Tamar wrote:
Dotsie wrote:Are you worried that people will be brainwashed into believing in fairies?

No, I worry about the glorification of a criminal and the whole "end justifies the means" theme. Making the criminal a child doesn't soften it or make it less likely to affect the kids' minds, it just makes it worse.

....


I don't like the Artemis Fowl stories. They are better written than some, but the main character is a criminal.


I think you have somewhat lost the plot here. Yes Artemis is a criminal, but he does use the 'skills' he has developed in this to defeat a greater evil. This would equally apply to Sherlock Holmes, Batman, Spiderman or a host of other fictional 'crime fighting' characters who when you look at what they actually do are well beyond the realms of legality in their actions. James Bond is a good example, clearly his actions are far beyond normal legal boundaries. Maybe what you object to is him profiting from his actions but there ae always consequences and these can be quite severe. But what you also need to remember is that this is 'young adult' (I hate that phrase so in reality the 13 to 16 year age group) and to read of someone of their peer group outsmarting adults is highly appealing. The underlying criminality is irrelevent it's the chutzpa that he displays that appeals.
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Re: Artemis Fowl Books to be made into Movies

Postby =Tamar » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:33 pm

The Mad Collector wrote:
=Tamar wrote:No, I worry about the glorification of a criminal and the whole "end justifies the means" theme. Making the criminal a child doesn't soften it or make it less likely to affect the kids' minds, it just makes it worse.
....I don't like the Artemis Fowl stories. They are better written than some, but the main character is a criminal.


I think you have somewhat lost the plot here. Yes Artemis is a criminal, but he does use the 'skills' he has developed in this to defeat a greater evil. This would equally apply to Sherlock Holmes, Batman, Spiderman or a host of other fictional 'crime fighting' characters who when you look at what they actually do are well beyond the realms of legality in their actions. James Bond is a good example, clearly his actions are far beyond normal legal boundaries.

Bond is a really poor example, because Fleming originally invented the character as a severe criticism of the government that would hire such a man; it was supposed to show how reprehensible the whole system was. Fleming was very upset when people took Bond as a hero. He became even more cynical and finally just wrote the books as potboiler moneymakers.

Spiderman was designed as an anti-hero whose powers didn't solve his emotional problems nor even his social problems. Batman is a bully who was bullied as a child; his stated motivation is to make criminals fear him - not to preserve justice or even to catch them, but "to strike fear into the hearts of evildoers."
Sherlock Holmes only rarely broke laws by comparison, and Dr Watson told him for it more than once.
All those characters are primarily adults; even Spiderman begins as an older teenager. Artemis Fowl is a kid.

The Mad Collector wrote:Maybe what you object to is him profiting from his actions but there are always consequences and these can be quite severe. But what you also need to remember is that this is 'young adult' (I hate that phrase so in reality the 13 to 16 year age group) and to read of someone of their peer group outsmarting adults is highly appealing. The underlying criminality is irrelevant it's the chutzpah that he displays that appeals.


The standard definition of chutzpah is that it is a quality of an audacious criminal who behaves like a sociopath.

Over many years of reading I have developed the ability to flip through a book very quickly to find out the gist of what happens, and I had hopes that Artemis had redeemed himself - he appeared to have begun to develop a conscience. But in the end of the last book I saw, the author used magic and a misunderstanding to put the character back to square one, the amoral criminal that he began as. That negates any development that happened and puts the character back in the criminal group with James Bond.

There are plenty of books in which kids outsmart adults. It's an entire genre in itself. I object to a child main character that the child reader is supposed to identify with, who has sociopathic attitudes and who deliberately commits adult-level crimes with, ultimately, no regrets.
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OTOH Re: Artemis Fowl Books to be made into Movies

Postby =Tamar » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:39 pm

On The Other Hand -

Movies almost always change the plot, and in the case of Who Framed Roger Rabbit, they rescued a dismal book and made a good movie - so maybe they will almost certainly change the entire character of Artemis Fowl.
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Re: Artemis Fowl Books to be made into Movies

Postby Quatermass » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:12 am

Tamar, the original Artemis Fowl book was certainly about a supercriminal kid, but the sequels shows his development into a better person. In fact, what I have heard is that this film will adapt the first two books, with the second showing Artemis Fowl going through some character development, helping the fairies against a more evil foe and beginning to change. And even in the first book, he shows some complexity: he detests whaling and environmental problems, and he begins to regret kidnapping Holly once he realises how 'human' she is.

In other words, you've missed the [EFF!]ing point of the books.

And if we're talking about 'criminals' being bad role models for children, let's look at some beloved children's characters who are also criminals from a certain point of view: Fantastic Mr Fox (thief), George of George's Marvellous Medicine (manslaughter of an elderly woman, illegal drug manufacture), Willy Wonka (slavery, no WHS compliance, negligent homicide), the Doctor (too many to count, but started off with grand theft TARDIS and worked his way up to genocide several times over), Jack of Jack and the Beanstalk (who is guilty of theft at the very least, as you can argue that the giant-slaying was technically self-defence, but committed because he stole things in the first place), Winnie the Pooh (being a glutton who doesn't understand property ownership, especially when it comes to honey), Dorothy Gale (involuntary manslaughter of the Wicked Witch of the East)...look, need I go on? I like most of these characters, and a few I love, but it's worth pointing out that there are very few true role models to children in fiction.

If you don't like Artemis Fowl, fine. But don't post in this thread if you're going to go all Mary Whitehouse on us. Killjoy.
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