Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby Slantaholic » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:05 pm

As I found out earlier the language isn't bleeped or flagged up in the editor.

My apologies.

I'm somewhat confused by my niece at the present date. She's accessed lots of sites and sworn all over the comments. My sibling kept her too long under parental control.

Do you have a permanent sticky post concerning swearing/language? I don't want to have anyone blocked at school/work by parental control.

Previous post edited - replaced with 'frick'. Where did you find sarcasm? I'm puzzled.
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby Tonyblack » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:16 pm

No worries. :) I know some sites have language filters, but this one doesn't. We just ask our members to consider others and that usually works just fine. ;)
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby =Tamar » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:29 am

Slantaholic wrote:We had Klatchian wizards and sorcerers in Sourcery, as well as some witch from Krull from previous books. I presume that Klatchians are dark-skinned Asians on Discworld.


Klatch is a big place. There seems to be a country named that, but also a much larger area that contains other countries. Some Klatchians are from the countries near Djelibeybi and Hersheba. Then there are the Brown Islands, not too far from Agatea. There are also the indigenous natives of XXXX. There are many ethnic groups in Ankh-Morpork, each with its own ethnic restaurants. Some arrived as barbarian invaders, others arrived as refugees. There seem to be several types of curry - some of the restaurateurs who serve curry seem to have Auriential speech patterns, others seem to have Klatchian speech patterns. I suspect there are some Ephebian restaurants as well. I'm less certain of Brindisian restaurants, since most of Ankh-Morpork seems to think they only eat two foods, but there is cultural exchange in the opera.

Slantaholic wrote:Candle dribblers aren't very high up in power or very well paid. There's also Modo the gardener. It's like implying that all the University staff and students are aliens and that the only normal people are the gardener and a candle-dribbler. Everyone else is inaccessible to anyone who isn't "alien white".


Sir Pterry rarely mentions any physical description. When he does, it's for a specific effect. For instance, Genua seems to be a fairly cosmopolitan city-state with a casually mixed-race culture. We don't get a detailed description of every character, but it is a reasonable assumption that at least half of the population is mixed one way or another. The details aren't given because it doesn't affect the plot. Similarly, there is no need to specify the percentage of non-blond members of the UU student body, because it doesn't affect the plot. They are wizards; color simply isn't important. "Racism was not a problem on the Discworld, because -- what with trolls and dwarfs and so on -- speciesism was more interesting. Black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green." (Witches Abroad)

Slantaholic wrote:The fourth SoD left me puzzled and angry over historically inaccurate priests; one "good guy" equipped with an axe is like a looter out of World of Warcraft.

They aren't "historically inaccurate" - they are accurate to Discworld. What, you think Discworld is identical to Roundworld? The whole point is that they are not the same. Also, It seems that you haven't read Carpe Jugulum or Thud, nor did you pay much attention to Pastor Oats as he was referred to in Unseen Academicals. Small Gods is where we first met the Omnians. I suggest a careful rereading.
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Re: Spanky and Defenestration; SoD4JD

Postby Square12 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:56 am

=Tamar wrote:
Slantaholic wrote:ertain famous Roundworld universities, though as you say, they seem to have forgotten about Esk's being officially a UU wizard, not to mention Granny who at one point was offered a chair. Susan Death has visited UU more than once as well. It's possible that Esk stayed for quite a while and as has been described, they quietly rewrote the rules so as not to include her, and managed to forget that she is female. Sir Terry did once say on alt.fan.pratchett that there was a roaring trade in false beards at UU, implying that there may be more female wizards than show up specifically in the books.



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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby Dotsie » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:25 pm

:lol:

I'm fine with UU being sexist. It's perfectly in keeping with the style of the place. If it was set in modern day England, rather than Victorian England, that would be a different matter. We don't know what their recruitment policy is regarding race (how many other universities are there on the Disc? Do Disc academics want to live in A-M? Universities that are big on research tend to have a more diverse faculty than ones that aren't), and since speciesism was invented by Terry anyway, that's a bit of a redundant argument. Do we even know if other species can do magic? :?
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby Tonyblack » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:27 pm

Dwarfs make broomsticks and they're magic.
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby Dotsie » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:30 pm

But what makes them magic? Can dwarfs cast spells? Have dwarfs applied for faculty positions and been turned down? All important questions to ask before considering if the UU is in fact speciesist.
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby =Tamar » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:39 pm

Dotsie wrote: how many other universities are there on the Disc?

There are at least four now:
One at Krull, UU, One in XXXX, Brazeneck.
I think we can assume at least one in Klatch and probably one wherever Dragonbreath was studying giant clams.
We might also have to consider the various monastic orders - the Time monks, the Balancing monks, etc.
Much of what they do qualifies as magic.

Dotsie wrote:Do we even know if other species can do magic? :?

Diamond King of Trolls definitely can do magical things.
The Dwarfs do broomsticks.
Whatever Pepe is, he and the dwarfs working with him are making magical chainmail.

Are we going to distinguish between being a magical entity (vampires, werewolves, elves, medium-small gods) and doing magic?
The Disc is loaded with magical creatures and entities. I'm not sure whether we should consider Igors to be a separate species; they seem to be born apparently normal-human-looking and create their preferred appearance. Their medical abilities, especially self-surgery, seem magical, especially considering the state of medical knowledge generally.
Last edited by =Tamar on Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby Dotsie » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:23 pm

=Tamar wrote:Are we going to distinguish betweenbeing a magical entity (vampires, werewolves, elves, medium-small gods) and doing magic?

Well that depends. Do you think a vampire should have a place in the faculty? What would an elf do? My point was that there aren't many universities on the Disc, nor are there any other species that have the same mastery of magic as humans, so it's a bit daft to say that the UU is either racist or speciesist. No spells, no chair! (one spell for making a broomstick fly isn't going to impress for long)
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby =Tamar » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:30 am

Dotsie wrote: Do you think a vampire should have a place in the faculty? What would an elf do?

Good point. Even if they could teach what they do, it might not be useful. Elves and vampires seem to have similar types of magic - flight, some mind control or glamours, and imperviousness to cold weather (but fortunately, elves apparently don't resurrect). Plus whatever Pepe (whatever he is) was doing to make special dwarf chainmail even more magical than the simple non-chafing kind (the special kinds we know of being (1) inertialess protection and (2) something we don't really want to know about).

Dotsie wrote: My point was that there aren't many universities on the Disc, nor are there any other species that have the same mastery of magic as humans, so it's a bit daft to say that the UU is either racist or speciesist. No spells, no chair!

None we know of anyway; Diamond King of Trolls can do magic but the average troll doesn't seem to have the talent - on the other hand, maybe there are trolls in the high Ramtops that can do magic but forget it all when they get down to warmer climates.

Dotsie wrote: (one spell for making a broomstick fly isn't going to impress for long)

I think the Dwarfs may have another spell, unless all the magic in the non-chafing chainmail was being done by Pepe. I don't think he works that hard, so I think that either the Dwarfs invented it or he invented it and then taught them as a trade secret.

Still, I see your point that as far as we know, and leaving out Igors who seem to have magical surgical skills, no other species has evolved or developed magic-workers as a teachable specialty the way the humans have developed training for those who have the talent to be witches and wizards. Until or unless another species shows a similar developable potential (as opposed to something they are born being able to do), there is no evidence that UU is speciesist, and without the sort of physical descriptions that would show a bias, there is no evidence regarding racism either way. Sexism is built into the era and the parody, and has been undercut already by the aforementioned roaring trade in false beards.
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby DaveC » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:44 pm

So I finished it this week.

I agree with the above, the Science was alright, I can't argue with science, but it wan't as edgy as I thought it would be?

And the Discworld story, while not bad, was way too short compared the stories in the other books.

I'll still say I enjoyed it, the defenestration bit was a special :lol: for me! I actually liked tying Roundworld into the universe again, as seen in Colour of Magic. :D
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