Thief of Time Discussion *Spoilers*

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Postby Lady Vetinari » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:19 pm

The only thing missing from this book was the meeting of Lu Tze of Mrs Cosmopilite - I would have liked a scene where he formally introduces himself to her - I am not sure if this has been discussed but ...

Does anyone know WHEN he met her? He is 800 years old but I doubt boarding houses existed then even in AM. So did he meet her when he was about 600 or slice time?

I love what Mrs Cosmopolite comes out with ... practically my grandma she is!
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Postby Dotsie » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:41 am

Lady Vetinari wrote:Does anyone know WHEN he met her? He is 800 years old but I doubt boarding houses existed then even in AM. So did he meet her when he was about 600 or slice time?


I can't for the life of me remember which book it's in, but there's a reference to Ms C being bothered by junior monks knocking on her door wanting to learn the way of Mrs Cosmopilite. So he can't have met her that long ago.

EDIT: she shoos them off her steps with her broom :lol:
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:14 am

I'm pretty sure that Mrs. Cosmopolite has been plagued by little men in yellow/orange robes turning up on her doorstep right back when the series was still in single figures - of course Lu Tse must have been the first though :lol:

I do remember in MP Theda/Ginger's landlady had issues with gentlemen callers (unless they were there for a spot of sex) because she was convinced she had dwarves (I think) hiding in her wardrobe watching when she undressed... :roll:

Bloody Hell! :shock:

I literally just Wiki-ed her! :lol: She IS the lady with the peeping dwarves as well as the History Monks! PMSL
Obviously my memory ain't as bad as I thought - just sad... :twisted:
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Postby Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit » Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:10 pm

Seekers of Wisdom in Discworld

"It's a strange thing about determined seekers-after-wisdom that, no matter where they happen to be, they'll always seek that wisdom which is a long way off. Wisdom is one of the few things that looks bigger the further away it is.

Hence, for example, the Way of Mrs. Cosmopolite, very popular among young people who live in the hidden valleys above the snowline in the high Ramtops. Disdaining the utterances of their own saffron-clad, prayer-wheel-spinning elders, they occasionally travel all the way to No. 3 Quirm Street in flat and foggy Ankh-Morpork, to seek wisdom at the feet of Mrs. Marietta Cosmopolite, a seamstress.

Noone knows the reason for this apart from the aforesaid attractiveness of distant wisdom., since they can't understand a word she says or, more usually screams at them. Many a bald young monk returns to his high fastness to meditate on the strange mantra vouchsafed to him, such as "Push off, You!" and "If I see one more of you little orange devils peering in at me he'll feel the edge of my hand, all right?" and " Why are you buggers all coming around here staring at my feet?"

They have even developed a special branch of martial arts based on their experiences, where they shout incomprehensibly at one another and then hit their opponent with a broom."

Terry Pratchett "Witches Abroad"

Dat's Der Bunny!!! :twisted: Also, time does not matter to monks ... Really ...

on a side note, she is mentioned in Soul Music when Blert Wheedown's pants are falling down with gems and such and he sends Gibbsson to "Get me some black paint, and go to Mrs. Cosmopolite and see if she has any of them Ankhgems and some black sequins too while your at it."
Aha! So, Bob's yer uncle... very clever.
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Postby kakaze » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:25 pm

Lady Vetinari wrote:The only thing missing from this book was the meeting of Lu Tze of Mrs Cosmopilite - I would have liked a scene where he formally introduces himself to her - I am not sure if this has been discussed but ...

Does anyone know WHEN he met her? He is 800 years old but I doubt boarding houses existed then even in AM. So did he meet her when he was about 600 or slice time?

I love what Mrs Cosmopolite comes out with ... practically my grandma she is!


I wondered about that too, since he's very old and (presumably) has been following his Way for a long time, but he still gets his warm underwear made by her.
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Postby poohcarrot » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:22 am

Lu-Tse can travel backwards and forwards in time, so he might have met her when he was 21.
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Postby kakaze » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:32 am

Can he though?

Who thinks that LuTzu can travel back to a time in the past? And who thinks that he can only slow time down to crawl?
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Postby poohcarrot » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:35 am

How did he get Vimes' cigar case to him in Nightwatch?
How did he know Vimes came from the future?
"Disliking Carrot would be like kicking a puppy."
"You kicked a puppy," Lobsang said accusingly.
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Postby poohcarrot » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:41 am

There are TWO kinds of time travel in the book.

There is "slicing time" which can only go forward - which Kakaze is talking about.

And there is "procrastinator time travel" which can go forwards or backwards - as demonstrated by Wen to Clodpole with the repeating of the sentence, and the growing of the cherry tree. 8)

The procrastinator time travel is further demonstrated in Nightwatch.
"Disliking Carrot would be like kicking a puppy."
"You kicked a puppy," Lobsang said accusingly.
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Postby kakaze » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:51 pm

The cigar case could have been gotten using good, old-fashioned detective skills.

But I forgot that in Night Watch, he and Qu went back to pre-historic Ankh-Morpork.
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Postby Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit » Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:32 am

That is where they were practicing the "dance" to get the cigar case back to Vimes/Keel. And/or as a distraction to get Keel behind the barricade.
Aha! So, Bob's yer uncle... very clever.
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Postby kakaze » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:25 am

As I was driving home tonight Thief of Time reminded me a bit of Bruce Lee's Enter The Dragon. In particular, the way that Lu Tzu never fight's people unless he has no choice.

If he wants a battle to succeed then he re-shoes a general's horse.

If he wants an emperor to die, he simply puts a fish bone in his pie and lets the man choke himself to death.

But, when he needs to, he can fight and defeat Time himself.

It reminded me of the boat scene in Enter the Dragon where Bruce Lee defeats a bully by tricking him, rather than by fighting him. Apparently, this is based on a story about a famous Japanese swordsman named Tsukahara Bokuden who was challenged by a mannerless ruffian. When asked about his style, Bokuden replied that he studied the "Style of No Sword." The ruffian laughed and insultingly challenged Bokuden to fight him without a sword. Bokuden then agreed to fight the man without his sword but suggested they row out to a nearby island on Lake Biwa to avoid disturbing others. The ruffian agreed, but when he jumped from the boat to the shore of the island, drawing his blade, Bokuden pushed the boat back out, leaving the ruffian stranded on the island. Bokuden explained, "This is my no-sword school."
_______________________________________________

As long as we're talking about cultural sources for the characters, I'd say that the valley of Oi Dong and the temple are based on Lost Horizon, the monks are based on the Shaolin Temple, and the relationship between LuTze and Lobsang is from David Caradine's movie Kung Fu.

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A Shaolin monk in a saffron robe.

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A Tibetan monk. The robes are maroon.

By the way, I'm sure that Lobsang's name came from Tuesday Lobsang Rampa, who was a writer who claimed to have been a Lama in Tibet before spending the second part of his life in the body of a British man. There is a story in Lobsang Rampa's book, The Third Eye, where he talks about Tibetan monks who sit out in the snow and use their body's energy to dry wet towels that are wrapped around them.
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Postby Tonyblack » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:47 am

You now have just one week to read or reread Equal Rites for the discussion on Monday November 2nd. :D
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Postby Exp. Date, the rat » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:55 am

I think i have found a link between this book and Interesting Times. When one of Ponders associates types in 'Why' to Hex he gets the answer 'Because' and wasn't this the answer that Lobsang gets out of the Way?


:lol:
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Postby Tonyblack » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:46 pm

Exp. Date, the rat wrote:I think i have found a link between this book and Interesting Times. When one of Ponders associates types in 'Why' to Hex he gets the answer 'Because' and wasn't this the answer that Lobsang gets out of the Way?


:lol:
Nah - my mother used to come up with that answer. It's typical mom-ese. :wink:
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