doctor who 2013 spoilers

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doctor who 2013 spoilers

Postby chris.ph » Sun May 19, 2013 6:53 am

jhn hurt is the a forcibly forgotten regeneration between mcann and eccleston, he is the time war doctor :o
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Re: doctor who 2013 spoilers

Postby Quatermass » Sun May 19, 2013 9:25 am

There are two other theories. The first is that John Hurt's Doctor may be the Valeyard, or something similar. An intercarnation like the Watcher or the Valeyard.

The second is that this is actually the original Doctor, the very first, before William Hartnell. Maybe his whole life was spent trying to make restitution for what happened back then.
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Re: doctor who 2013 spoilers

Postby BillDoor » Sun May 19, 2013 12:19 pm

I found the finale to be an all-round pleaser. The sudden end showing Mr Hurt, had me a little stumped at first. I was still taking in what the Doctor was saying as Clara passed out.

All the Twitter reactions afterwards were a giggle too, theories and all.

I keep seeing the Valeyard name mentioned. This, I need to google. My knowledge of the show isn't as tall as others. Currently, I'm liking the 'forgotten' regeneration theory. Plump him between McGann and Christopher. Didn't see the regeneration inbetween. Makes sense - for now! :D
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Re: doctor who 2013 spoilers

Postby Jack Remillard » Sun May 19, 2013 1:32 pm

The Valeyard prosecuted the sixth Doctor for genocide. :)

The Master informed the Doctor that the Valeyard was "an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say you do not improve with age".
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Re: doctor who 2013 spoilers

Postby The Mad Collector » Sun May 19, 2013 7:53 pm

As the Valeyard was specifically mentioned during the episode I don't think it's him. I like the idea of the Time War Doctor though
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Re: doctor who 2013 spoilers

Postby simmonds91 » Tue May 21, 2013 8:18 pm

Been reading up on the dr who universe, I read that it was regeneration #8 that committed the genocide? With that demat gun he modified? So even if John hurt was this secret #9 I don't see how he's the bad version matt smith said he was. It's all very confusing to me since I've only seen as far back as eccleston.
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Re: doctor who 2013 spoilers

Postby Square12 » Tue May 21, 2013 9:03 pm

I think dave lister is the missing reincarnation between McCann and eccleston and he just lost the tardis then when he got put in stasis for 3million years the tardis couldn't find him. That's my theory anyway and I'm sticking to it.
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Re: doctor who 2013 spoilers

Postby Quatermass » Wed May 22, 2013 12:59 pm

simmonds91 wrote:Been reading up on the dr who universe, I read that it was regeneration #8 that committed the genocide? With that demat gun he modified? So even if John hurt was this secret #9 I don't see how he's the bad version matt smith said he was. It's all very confusing to me since I've only seen as far back as eccleston.


If you got that from the Doctor Who comic The Forgotten, it's worth remembering that Doctor Who's canon is dubious outside the TV series. Whether the Doctor used the modified D-Mat gun (which, incidentally, made its debut in the classic series story The Invasion of Time) is unknown, as is the majority of the events of the Time War, quite deliberately. The Time War was never portrayed in the classic series, save (albeit in retrospect) a couple of the opening shots fired (Genesis of the Daleks was stated by Russell T Davies to be the very beginning of what would escalate into the Time War, and certainly the Daleks' actions in Resurrection of the Daleks suggest an attempted retaliatory strike).

Whether the Un-Doctor (as I have taken to calling him) ended the Time War, or (and I think this is more likely) did something even worse than wiping out the Daleks and Time Lords is unknown at this time. I think Moffat might reveal what happened in the 50th Anniversary Special later this year...

BTW, actually watch some episodes of the classic series. It helps.
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Re: doctor who 2013 spoilers

Postby Jack Remillard » Wed May 22, 2013 6:05 pm

Quatermass wrote: The Time War was never portrayed in the classic series, save (albeit in retrospect) a couple of the opening shots fired (Genesis of the Daleks was stated by Russell T Davies to be the very beginning of what would escalate into the Time War, and certainly the Daleks' actions in Resurrection of the Daleks suggest an attempted retaliatory strike).

Remembrance Of The Daleks could probably be seen as being part of the Time War. The Doctor actually
Spoiler: show
destroying Skaro (or somewhere very like it...)

was quite war-like, although he was probably not doing that under orders from his government. He did talk up his status as 'President-elect' of the Time Lords to the Daleks at that time though, so it could have been seen as an act of war.
Last edited by Jack Remillard on Wed May 22, 2013 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: doctor who 2013 spoilers

Postby Penfold » Wed May 22, 2013 7:19 pm

Quick question from someone who may well have missed it in the history of Doctor Who. How did the Daleks discover time travel? :confusion-scratchheadyellow:
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Re: doctor who 2013 spoilers

Postby Jack Remillard » Wed May 22, 2013 8:13 pm

Not sure how they discovered it, but they were first seen using it in their third story The Chase (a slightly silly story with the first Doctor et al being chased through history by a bunch of Daleks in a time ship). Later on, they are seen using things called 'Time Corridors' to travel between specific points in time (for example in Day Of The Daleks).

In Remembrance Of The Daleks, the 7th Doctor described Dalek time corridor technology as 'very crude and nasty'. The Daleks tried to steal a Time Lord device called the Hand Of Omega in order to get the kind of advanced time travel the Time Lords had. That plan went a bit pear shaped, really.
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Re: doctor who 2013 spoilers

Postby Quatermass » Wed May 22, 2013 10:56 pm

Jack Remillard wrote:
Quatermass wrote: The Time War was never portrayed in the classic series, save (albeit in retrospect) a couple of the opening shots fired (Genesis of the Daleks was stated by Russell T Davies to be the very beginning of what would escalate into the Time War, and certainly the Daleks' actions in Resurrection of the Daleks suggest an attempted retaliatory strike).

Remembrance Of The Daleks could probably be seen as being part of the Time War. The Doctor actually
Spoiler: show
destroying Skaro (or somewhere very like it...)

was quite war-like, although he was probably not doing that under orders from his government. He did talk up his status as 'President-elect' of the Time Lords to the Daleks at that time though, so it could have been seen as an act of war.


Oh, God, I forgot Remembrance of the Daleks! I didn't have my Whovian cap nailed on securely enough. Better get out the nailgun...

*spt-TUNK!*

*spt-TUNK!*

*spt-TUNK!*

*spt-TUNK!*

Ah, that's better.

Anyway, yeah, you're right. But the Doctor was also using his (former) position to impress the Dalek Emperor.

Spoiler: show
He suspected, but didn't know for sure, that it was Davros, and he had already planned to use the Hand of Omega to destroy Skaro, albeit by proxy: programming the Hand to destroy Skaro's sun and letting the Daleks capture it.


PS. Regarding Dalek time travel tech, while it may be very crude and nasty by Time Lord standards, they are certainly more advanced than many other species in the series. They used TARDIS-like time machines powered by tarranium in The Chase and The Daleks' Master Plan, and in the latter, they had actually developed a tarranium-fuelled weapon, the Time Destructor, that could warp and change the flow of time over a certain area. That didn't end well, for either the Daleks or the Doctor and his companions (one of them, Sara Kingdom, aged to death).

The time corridor technology seemed to be used as early as The Evil of the Daleks, as time travel in that story required a station of sorts. I dunno what they used in Day of the Daleks to devastate Earth, but the 'time machine boxes' seem to be a portable time corridor.
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Re: doctor who 2013 spoilers

Postby Square12 » Thu May 23, 2013 1:22 am

Here's one for you hardcore whovians: can anyone explain why the TARDIS translation matrix did not translate the barking female alien called Doreen in rings of akhaten, or for that matter why it doesn't translate animal speech?
On a similar note can we assume that Strax and Vastra have both learned English in order to survive in Victorian London? If so from a purely pedantic point of view how exactly could they achieve this with completely different mouth structures including in Vastra's case a very different tongue shape as demonstrated in demons run?
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Re: doctor who 2013 spoilers

Postby Tonyblack » Thu May 23, 2013 6:46 am

The same reason the Star Trek Universal Translator doesn't translate Klingons when they curse. :lol:
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Re: doctor who 2013 spoilers

Postby Quatermass » Thu May 23, 2013 7:41 am

Square12 wrote:Here's one for you hardcore whovians: can anyone explain why the TARDIS translation matrix did not translate the barking female alien called Doreen in rings of akhaten, or for that matter why it doesn't translate animal speech?
On a similar note can we assume that Strax and Vastra have both learned English in order to survive in Victorian London? If so from a purely pedantic point of view how exactly could they achieve this with completely different mouth structures including in Vastra's case a very different tongue shape as demonstrated in demons run?


I dunno about Doreen, but she wasn't the only alien to be left untranslated. The Foamasi from The Leisure Hive couldn't be translated by the TARDIS either, speaking in a series of chirps unless they have a special translation device. I'd say that the TARDIS databank of languages is far from complete (it is an old model), and in the case of Doreen, the Doctor learned the language last time he was there, or at least enough to shop with.

As for Strax and Vastra, the answers are relatively simple by comparison. In the former, Sontarans have been known to use translators before (notably in the first scene with a Sontaran in The Time Warrior), and even afterwards, Strax has worked with humans before in the future, suggesting that he knows the rudiments of English, or at least enough so that any differences between future and Victorian English are readily learned. In Doctor Who and the Silurians, a Silurian is heard to speak to a human, Dr Quinn, in English long before the Doctor meets them, suggesting that the Silurians were able to learn English quickly, so Vastra might have picked it up quickly as well. And she has a more human-like mouth compared to the original Silurians...
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