To This Day...

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Re: To This Day...

Postby Conforumist » Mon May 06, 2013 6:47 pm

We had our share of it when we moved to Canada as well. Germans were not looked at the same way 40 years ago. Being in a new country and not speaking English is bad enough. We learn English pretty darn fast, so we could "fit in". I think my German is so rusty now, because I just wanted to leave it behind; and I did not think I would lose that much.

Luckily, I had a big sister to look out for me. :)

I think we sci-fi/fantasy nerds and computer geeks probably get the bulk if the bullying, but I don't have stats. :?
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Re: To This Day...

Postby Square12 » Mon May 06, 2013 9:26 pm

I know when I was at school prefect job went to anybody who volunteered, as far as the school were concerned it would look good on uni applications. I also just remembered two forms of physical bullying that were fairly common: bundles and postings. Bundles were when someone shouted BUNDLE and everyone in the vicinity piled in on top of the victim, as a typical target I developed an innate instinct to leap several feet to one side when I heard that word and always managed to dodge it then depending on my mood would jump onto the pile myself. Postings were a bit more vicious and involved two groups of bullies one grabbing the left leg the other group the right leg, the two groups then went either side of a tree/lamppost/basketball pole etc and started pulling. They only tried to post me once, after which there were several limping bullies. Slightly overweight + broad shouldered = surprisingly powerful legs throw in a knowledge of the fact that if you twist your head first it is then incredibly easy to twist the body to follow and force the two groups of bullies to collide and loose their grip!
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Re: To This Day...

Postby Sister Jennifer » Mon May 06, 2013 11:26 pm

That was incredibly emotive Cheery. Thanks for sharing even though it was hard to watch. I was bullied all through school. That's some heavy baggage to shake loose. I think I managed it, I won't put up with people's nonsense now. It doesn't matter how big the bully is, they've always got a neck, (Thanks Dylan).
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Re: To This Day...

Postby Del » Tue May 07, 2013 12:42 am

What you guys have experienced is horrendous. My heart breaks for anyone who has been bullied.

OH COME ON... lets us the right word here.... ABUSED!

I dont remember any bullying as a small child... but then I lived in VERY tiny towns and if you put a foot wrong in a very tiny town then someones mother/father/big brother etc would pull you up pretty fast... THEN you would have to deal with your own parents. The one saving grace to living in tiny towns is that you learn to get along with everyone. You have to.

Do you think the fact that I had 6 older brothers helped? Mind you ..... I personally think the older sisters were more terrifying.

And lets face it.... if I could survive being no: 11 of 12 I could survive school. Hell... I think our family was larger than some schools.

Yes I got bullied once I hit the bigger cities for school. But I was a total geek, tallest in the class, socks pulled up, tie in the right place, fat/skinny at times, gold rimmed glasses. I didnt understand it. Just got on with what I had to do. Looking back I was like that kitten that has a large ferocious dog barking at it looking like its going to tear it apart and the kitten just looks non-plus at it and walks off. And you know me. Talk under water... I was shy as a mouse but was taught "manners" so always said a cheery hello :D and asked after everyone... even the bullies. Tended to throw them I think. :lol:

I was this tall skinny girl who ate like a horse when my brother was killed in an accident when I was 14. I suddenly became the tall fat girl. I always remember walking down the school drive in high school and seeing all these kids lined up in a row. When I walked past they all raised their hand... like you do when you hail a bus. THAT joke got a bit much after the first few weeks... but then I got deadly sick at school one day, ambulances and sirens and stuff and after a few weeks in hospital came back as the tall skinny girl. Think it scared them a bit so they dropped it ;) so all in all I had it easy to what you guys did.

MY girls on the other hand... :( My oldest was very much like me... the tall geek.. well thats how she saw herself, but the same, she didnt understand it and just got ON with school. Mind you... I turned up at her primary school in grade 3 and found her being beaten up something shocking. :o Pulled her out there and then and put her in another school. Best thing I ever did. She bloomed at the new school! I could have only done it because a family around the corner from me drove her to the new school every day for me as there were no buses from my area.

In high school she just hung out with the other "geeks" (still does). A mass of geeks is a formidable thing! They will debate you into submission! :lol: She lost her beloved dad as a teen so I think she was battling with that so much that the bullying was just a minor annoyance. She actually suffered bullying as a young adult in share housing (which is common here for students and such). She is still an "alternate" kind of girl and has found her place in the world at 25 and her friends are the BEST people I could hope for. All of them have been bullied to massive lengths and support each other tremendously. The sad sad sad part is that so many of them are on medications as adults because of what they suffered as teens.

My middle child... ohhhh dear... she actually had to leave high school in senior as the bullying got so bad. Destroyed her. Totally destroyed her. She suffered from massive depression and I feared for her. It was a dark dark time for her. I personally wanted to string the kids up. Mental care here is abmismal but on the plus side she was SO bad that we got treatment for her and managed to break into her depression to the extent that she finished her high schooling at a college where other kids attended who had dropped out of school (mainly because of bullying). Because they had suffered they all understood each other and it was the last thing on their agenda. As she put it... "School without the bullsh*t!" So she at least got her schooling... but I feel her world would have been wide open if she had had a more formal education.

Funny thing... and I include you lot in this.... I wished it had never happened... but the kids she attended school with and the older daughters friends; they are all strong young adults. The kids who DID the bullying in high school are still idiots; dont seem to have life dreams or plans, just bopping along with the same high school idiots who idolised them, still immature. The ones who GOT bullied seem a whole lot more mature and have a better world view. Yeah?

As for Hayden.... :( :( She had no speech for so long and her speech is still blurred and hard to understand; and intellectually impaired. The earlier years broke my heart when she came home from school with her lips trembling and then her bursting into tears. Kids can be cruel to different children. But I realise that those years were a piece of cake compared to the teenage years in high school. This is the biggest trial of all and I feel powerless to help in so many ways. At least as a special needs kid she is on the radar and the school has stepped in early if its reported... but you know kids... they are a sly bunch and manage to get around the authorities. :evil: They pretend to be nice to her and then set her up for a massive fall emotionally. I worry about boys too. It turns out that H's safety is the no: 1 consideration in her condition :roll: Thats so wrong! We shall see what happens.... I am taking it one day at a time for the moment. I am at a loss. I had a lady serving me in the chemist last night who recognised Hayden and who left the counter to talk to me about H's school. She has a special needs teen son who is suffering shockingly at his high school and wanted to know how H's was for bullying. That desperate look parents get in their eyes.... I know it well. All we want is a safe place for our children who have SO much already to deal with.

And yeah chilli... I know EXACTLY where you are coming from (and there are other parents on here going through the same thing.... another thing this forum is wonderful for ... support!) :romance-grouphug:

I still hate the "bullying" word. Its abuse and the correct word should be taught to children AND adults from the earliest age.
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Re: To This Day...

Postby chillicamper » Tue May 07, 2013 5:51 am

Del....I think you might be right about those who were bullied being much more mature.

D has a physical condition that (as well as other stuff at home) has meant that he has always had to eat on time, can't always join in with after school stuff etc. So the kids at his school have always known about it. Some are fine, but others have bullied him in the past. My worry is that he tries to cope for too long. You know something is up. He is quieter than normal, more withdrawn. It takes an age to crack what the problem is -he wants to deal with it himself - he is so stubborn (don't know where he gets that from :roll: :lol: ). Eventually you get to the root of the problem and can speak to the school, but by then he's been through so much heartache.

I just hope that moving to secondary school will allow him to find more friends with the same interests, but I worry that there will also be more bullies as well.
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Re: To This Day...

Postby Tonyblack » Tue May 07, 2013 6:19 am

Kids are like animals - one wonders if bullying is some sort of natural 'pack' instinct, to turn on those perceived as different or weaker. It seems to me that a lot of the cohorts of bullies are doing it because they are afraid that it might happen to them, so they hide behind a bully and bully themselves.

I'm really sorry your kids have gone through this, Del. It's so hard to feel powerlesss to help them, but at least you were there for them.

One thing that being bullied can teach is empathy. That at least is something valuable and positive that can come out of the experience. But sadly, too often it can destroy lives.
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Re: To This Day...

Postby Catch-up » Tue May 07, 2013 12:15 pm

You're right Del, it is abuse. And, yes, some kids can be awful and will look for ways around getting caught. Hopefully we've reached a point where this isn't just accepted as normal behavior (blows my mind that anyone would EVER say that to a child, that it would EVER seem acceptable). Not just from the adults, but from the other kids as well. I think most schools are making a significant effort to educate kids on how to protect themselves and stand up for others. There's an official day at the schools here where everyone is encouraged to wear pink to show that they're against bullying, there are rallies, films, guest speakers, etc.

None of us want our kids to deal with anything that makes their life difficult. I would give anything to be able to take away all that Ava went through with her illness, hospital stays, anxiety, etc. But, I do recognize more than one silver lining from it. I think that she's growing into a very strong, confident person who genuinely loves herself, at least in part because of the things she's been through. Most things seem like small potatoes after that.
Last edited by Catch-up on Tue May 07, 2013 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: To This Day...

Postby Square12 » Tue May 07, 2013 12:22 pm

Let's try to get the saying changed to sticks and stones may cause bruising and scratches and in extreme circumstances break bones, but these injuries usually heal a lot quicker than a scarred heart and soul. Not as catchy I know but a lot more accurate!
If you can fill the unforgiving minute,
With sixty seconds worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a man my son.
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Re: To This Day...

Postby Catch-up » Tue May 07, 2013 1:28 pm

Well said! We should brainstorm new sayings to replace the old, stupid ones.
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Re: To This Day...

Postby Tonyblack » Tue May 07, 2013 2:08 pm

Sticks and stone may break my bones, but words will cut me deeply.
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Re: To This Day...

Postby Jan Van Quirm » Tue May 07, 2013 7:53 pm

That's a much better version Tony :clap:

I think another problem is that the baby boom generation and the children they had were mostly brought up when Victorian values still had some mileage of the 'eye for an eye' variety, with no real conscience on retaliating with violence to violence of whatever nature. :roll: Western culture doesn't help much either with so-called christian morality hardly up there to encourage tolerance.

I think this is why fantasy culture appeals to a certain type of individual as, by and large, it does have some kind of honour-system to it (even, or especially, Game of Thrones with its gritty realities where you're constantly weighing even the most seemingly appalling character against how they've got to be that way - well some of the time anyway, although I will always cheer Verys no matter what... :P ). When I was 7 in a catholic primary I was already finding myth and legend far more interesting and moral than RE according to the penguins and in fact I'd say that I learnt more about 'social safety skills' from The Water Babies than I ever did from the gospels, as Mrs. Do As You Would Be Done By made perfect sense to me, even when I realised she was the same person as Mrs. Be Done By As You Did... :ugeek:

It's all very well to say kids are horrible sometimes - who teaches or shows them how to be that way?
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Re: To This Day...

Postby Cheery » Tue May 07, 2013 8:13 pm

Very well said Jan. That doesn't come from nowhere. I've asked myself that a lot of times. So many things start with cruelty that happened to one person, who took it out on someone else and from there it spread in a chain reaction from one bad experience to another. Like, the boss yelling at his secretary because he had a bad day, upsetting the secretary, who yells at the intern, the intern kicks the dog because the secretary made them angry and the dog bites the IT guy who just happened to stand there because it was treated badly... and so on. I think it happens in a similar way. In many cases, the bullies are people who have been bullied too, in the past. Which doesn't make it any less terrible!
Just shows how far-reaching our actions can be...

That said, I'll join in with replacing old, stupid sayings:

Sticks and stones are not as bad as words that cut my soul.
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Re: To This Day...

Postby Square12 » Tue May 07, 2013 9:13 pm

Or how about Sticks and stones might break your bones, but words can break a soul!
Indeed well said Jan IF I ever have kids of my own and I see the displaying any form of cruelty to animals, humans or toys, I hope I'll try to be calm and ask them why they are doing it. Then if appropriate lecture, advise or punish them, although never physical punishment. I would however use a open palmed smack on the thigh or buttocks as a danger replacement punishment, ie if I caught them playing with matches or electricity etc, but I would make sure I explained to them why they were being punished.
As a teacher, I have caught students bullying other students in class, first thing I did was send the bully to the director, who sat her down and explained in Spanish why it was wrong etc, another time with kids who were old enough to know it was wrong, I gave the whole class extra homework as punishment, including the victim, never saw or heard another instance. My simple logic being bullying relies on peer pressure, if the peer pressure then has a reason to oppose any bullying it can't breed.
If you can fill the unforgiving minute,
With sixty seconds worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a man my son.
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Re: To This Day...

Postby Catch-up » Wed May 08, 2013 4:02 pm

There's a big program over here that they teach the kids starting in preschool called Bucket Fillers. I love the ideas behind it and the kids really seem to connect with it. Here's a summary:

The idea of Bucket Fillers is based on the book "Have You Filled A Bucket Today? (A Guide to Daily Happiness For Kids)" by Carol McCloud. The premise of the book is this...

We all carry an invisible bucket that contains our feelings. When our bucket is full, we feel great. When our bucket is empty, we feel sad. A bucket filler is someone who says or does nice things for other people. By doing this, they are filling other people's buckets and filling their own bucket at the same time.

On the other hand, a bucket dipper says or does things to cause other people to feel bad. A bucket dipper empties their bucket when they say and do mean things.


And, I agree, kids who bully have learned it from someone else. They need to be able to talk about their experiences and have someone work it through with them. As long as they understand that it's not an excuse and bullying others will not be tolerated.
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