Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby Loopyc » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:44 pm

Grrrrr indeed.
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby Who's Wee Dug » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:56 pm

I have liked the science bits in the others, but I'm not that far into this one yet, it's maybe a sign of things to come induced unfortunely by that which needs not to be named.
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby Grimes » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:03 pm

Who's Wee Dug wrote:And have you read them Grimes :?: or just flicked through the pages.

I read the first one - that was like pulling finger nails, or cutting grass!
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby Dotsie » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:17 pm

Who's Wee Dug wrote:I have liked the science bits in the others, but I'm not that far into this one yet, it's maybe a sign of things to come induced unfortunely by that which needs not to be named.

Ian Stewart and Jack Cohen write the science part, what do they suffer from that doesn't need to be named? Sometimes we just don't like the way something is written, it doesn't mean it's a sign of a degenerative disease.
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby Who's Wee Dug » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:46 pm

I was referring to the short Discworld chapters Dotsie, as I quite enjoy Jack and Ian's science parts be they whimsical or factual and I have learned a bit from them which was fun.
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby The Mad Collector » Wed May 01, 2013 7:35 am

Also about halfway through Judgement Day and quite enjoying it although the Discworld sections are not really grabbing me yet. Maybe they will improve if/when Marjorie Daw interacts more with the wizards rather than just being talked at.
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby madwippitt » Thu May 09, 2013 8:26 pm

Is it me? Did TP actually write the Discworld sections? They don't have the usual literacy and fluency but feel clunky and awkward. Like rather bad fanfic rather than the genuine article.
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby Loopyc » Fri May 10, 2013 4:54 am

I thought the same! :think: Almost like they were an after thought?
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby The Mad Collector » Sun May 12, 2013 9:48 pm

Finished it now and if Terry wrote the Discworld sections then he was having a really bad 10 minutes (that's all it could have taken to produce them) The only good writing was in the science sections (loved the piano/higgs analogy :D ) None of the characters were in character, the writing was clunky to say the least and it just didn't feel right :roll:

Basic advice to Discworld fans who don't do the 'science' bits is avoid this book at all costs
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby =Tamar » Fri May 31, 2013 6:37 am

The book finally arrived and I ploughed through most of the science bits, finally skipping to read the Discworld novella. It's almost a short story. I have the feeling that Sir Terry didn't want to write another TSoD but the others did, and he saw a chance to express some exasperation. I'm a completist, so I don't regret buying it, but it really is short. I hope the time that wasn't spent on making this one longer is being well spent on improving the other three? books in progress.

He did create a reasonably clear depiction of the slippery, keep-changing-the-definitions methods of the hard-line Omnians who wouldn't even accept a personal statement from their own god that differed from their dogma. I wish Pastor Oats could go back and give them a good cleaning out, but I guess it's against Brutha's principles. The fact that Om has some power tells me that the jackasses who showed up theoretically in his name are not the majority.

I did notice one thing that the editor should have caught: Glenda says that no women other than kitchen staff are allowed in UU - but there are housekeeping staff too. Mrs. Whitlow would have something to say about that!

I am amazed at Marjorie Daw's ability to run in high heels on cobblestones; perhaps her brand-name shoes are better-made for that than any I have encountered.

Ponder seemed to be a bit slow on the uptake.
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Spanky and Defenestration; SoD4JD

Postby Slantaholic » Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:05 pm

Hello, I'm new. My first Discworld post *gulps*.

I was pleased that Glenda was back and Pastor Oats, but no sign of Mister Nutt. And apart from Angua and the Librarian, I think, it was mostly all human characters. I was awaiting more from Mr Slant, but Lord Vetinari took over and waved his gavel all over the place. I was thrilled that Slant stood up and talked to a god (Om); previously, I'd assumed that Discworld undead were extremely sensitive to religious objects/gods. It seems only most vampires are. Zombies can talk to a god!

I find it interesting that Vetinari is religious. I always thought he had a bit of magic in reserve. It turns out he prefers goddesses to blow his bubbles in the bath. I fear Vetinari's gone a bit nutty. I'm not sure if this is character development, say, the beginnings of Vetinari going mad, or whether Terry Pratchett can't talk him aloud as well. But Lord Vetinari tells the whole courtroom of, well, his bathroom prayers. And I would highly prefer if he SHOWED him defenestrating assassins, rather than have Angua TELL us.

I'm glad that Majorie Daw isn't a Mary Sue. I'm getting sick of Unseen University's sexism (and racism, and specieism). It's starting to spoil Discworld how sexist the University is. I'd hoped Esk would've achieved better from ISWM.

Also, it seems Pratchett has worked his way through hanky, panky, and now spanky. I think wanky's next. Anybody else? It may hit Nobby.

I had trouble ploughing through the science bits. The pianologists left me confused. Do they really exist in science as a metaphor, or did Pratchett make it all up? I usually love the science sections, especially in the first book. I feel they improved my science awareness. Unfortunately to them, I'm already an atheist, and the hammering on religion in later science books isn't very humanistic. It's all Christo-centric, or Christian-centric. I doubt that many Creationists read Discworld. I'd prefer if they took on the least humanist aspects of society, like the classist, racist bastards in charge that Pratchett lampoons in his books. But that would interfere with the wizards, I suppose.
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Re: Spanky and Defenestration; SoD4JD

Postby =Tamar » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:18 pm

Slantaholic wrote:I was pleased that Glenda was back and Pastor Oats, but no sign of Mister Nutt.


He's probably off civilizing humans somewhere, while Pastor Oats is visiting Ankh-Morpork. Someone has to continue the work.

Slantaholic wrote:I was thrilled that Slant stood up and talked to a god (Om); previously, I'd assumed that Discworld undead were extremely sensitive to religious objects/gods. It seems only most vampires are. Zombies can talk to a god!

Slant can, anyway. It did take some nerve, considering his general flammability and the tendency of Discworld gods to use lightning bolts.

Slantaholic wrote:I find it interesting that Vetinari is religious. I always thought he had a bit of magic in reserve. It turns out he prefers goddesses to blow his bubbles in the bath. I fear Vetinari's gone a bit nutty. I'm not sure if this is character development, say, the beginnings of Vetinari going mad, or whether Terry Pratchett can't talk him aloud as well. But Lord Vetinari tells the whole courtroom of, well, his bathroom prayers.
Discworld gods are real, which means there's more reason to pay some small attention to the ones who can do something you like. Presumably pleasant bath bubbles are a minor enough pleasure, though it is unusual for Vetinari to express such a personal preference in public. Maybe he was being subtle in a "gods are useful for little stuff but not for important things" way.

Slantaholic wrote:And I would highly prefer if he SHOWED him defenestrating assassins, rather than have Angua TELL us.
Agreed. On the other hand, that whole scene leads to problems. Did Vetinari himself defenestrate them? We are only told that they were defenestrated, not by whom. If Vetinari did it, why did he bring them back in? I think someone else - possibly even the crowd - threw them out, and Vetinari acted to be sure the assassins would be held for investigation by the Assassins' Guild as to whether they had proper credentials. The Guild is protective of their monopoly.

It could be that the implied action scene would have been distracting from the real action, which was Marjorie Daw retrieving Roundworld.

Slantaholic wrote: I'm getting sick of Unseen University's sexism (and racism, and specieism). It's starting to spoil Discworld how sexist the University is. I'd hoped Esk would've achieved better from ISWM.

UU is what it always has been, a parody based on certain famous Roundworld universities, though as you say, they seem to have forgotten about Esk's being officially a UU wizard, not to mention Granny who at one point was offered a chair. Susan Death has visited UU more than once as well. It's possible that Esk stayed for quite a while and as has been described, they quietly rewrote the rules so as not to include her, and managed to forget that she is female. Sir Terry did once say on alt.fan.pratchett that there was a roaring trade in false beards at UU, implying that there may be more female wizards than show up specifically in the books.

But since when is UU racist? Sir Terry rarely describes anybody physically. For instance, he doesn't go into long descriptions of All Jolson or his daughter Precious Jolson, but it's clear that they are black, as is Dave of Dave's Stamps, Coins, and Pins. The fact that (as far as I recall) Sir Terry hasn't happened to describe any particular wizard as black, Agatean, Klatchian, etc., doesn't mean there aren't any. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. UU isn't particularly speciesist either; the candle dribblers and others working there include at least one troll.

Slantaholic wrote:The pianologists left me confused. Do they really exist in science as a metaphor, or did Pratchett make it all up?

It's a metaphor that Pratchett made up. It's specifically a metaphor for the kind of physics experiments done at Cern.

Slantaholic wrote: the hammering on religion in later science books isn't very humanistic. It's all Christo-centric, or Christian-centric.

Did you read the last five pages carefully?
Last edited by =Tamar on Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby Slantaholic » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:49 pm

But since when is UU racist? Sir Terry rarely describes anybody physically. For instance, he doesn't go into long descriptions of All Jolson or his daughter Precious Jolson, but it's clear that they are black, as is Dave of Dave's Stamps, Coins, and Pins. The fact that (as far as I recall) Sir Terry hasn't happened to describe any particular wizard as black, Agatean, Klatchian, etc., doesn't mean there aren't any.


*fingers crossed* Hopefully the quote worked.

Al Johnson did blackface. I wish Terry Pratchett didn't have All Jolson as a character. But that's only three established black characters.

I have a hard time visualising Rincewind as black, as well as Ridcully, Ponder, the Dean, etc. If I try to race-swap all the Discworld characters, even Death sounds white. We had Klatchian wizards and sorcerors in Sourcery, as well as some witch from Krull from previous books. I presume that Klatchians are dark-skinned Asians on Discworld. Thank the frick for Discworld MUD for Agatean witches, wizards, thieves, etc.

UU isn't particularly speciesist either; the candle dribblers and others working there include at least one troll.


Oh, so that's how one spells "speciesist" - three Ss. Candle dribblers aren't very high up in power or very well paid. There's also Modo the gardener. It's like implying that all the University staff and students are aliens and that the only normal people are the gardener and a candle-dribbler. Everyone else is inaccessible to anyone who isn't "alien white". I would hate to be an inhabitant and meet no one who understood my culture, a tad like Majorie Daw. However, she got on with two powerful white old men immediately - Ridcully and Vetinari!

I like reading Discworld partially "colourblind" and "gender-blind"; Pratchett is one of the few writers who can draw a city for me full of different species, genders and races without having to refer to every person individually. I know he likes history a lot, and employs a variety of eras to depict the smelly city. It's a pity his writing style is suffering with his old age (mental) illness - I can't spell his dementia.

To be honest, I can't remember the last five pages. I remember more of the first Science of Discworld with the wondrous space elevators. The fourth SoD left me puzzled and angry over historically inaccurate priests; one "good guy" equipped with an axe is like a looter out of World of Warcraft. I also wanted less nutty Vetinari and more Slant, but that's me. Multi-fandom also left me awaiting the pivotal point for when Majorie Daw (never) turned into a Mary Sue-like flat female character. I'll have to find my copy of the book for a quick re-read.
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby The Mad Collector » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:13 pm

Sarcasm and bad language are not a way for anyone to behave on this forum least of all a newcomer. Please do not use the f word on a site that has children as members.
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Re: Science of Discworld - Judgement Day *Spoilers*

Postby Tonyblack » Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:16 pm

Thanks Mad. I missed that.

I agree wholeheartedly. Please restrain you language.
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