Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

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Re: Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

Postby simmonds91 » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:41 pm

Next watch book should have Vimes jr join the watch. Its a fun thought that Vimes jr may be Rhiannas own Vimes character if she takes on her fathers job and then Vimes jr has his own kid and rhiannas children if she ever has any writes Vimes jr's kids stories..... like a family inheritance of a family... inheritance.... im a little confused now....
Well, you know what they say. The past is a foreign country - - With an outdated military and huge oil reserves!
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Re: Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

Postby Alanz » Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:59 pm

Sounds good to me :D
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Re: Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

Postby Margi » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:18 pm

I've come to this thread late so my comments here relate to things said in posts a few pages back.

I loved Snuff. I have no problem that it is not a comedic book: no one ever said that Sir Terry is only allowed to write comedy. His insights into the human condition are part what I find so special about his books, and there is a great deal of that in Snuff. I like dark books and I think he does them brilliantly. There are humorous leavenings in Snuff, and the footnotes while short and few are still funny.

Vimes' character development, from the drunk in the gutter to the Dukedom thrust on him against his will, and thence to Snuff, set six years after we last see Vimes in Thud, has been excellently portrayed. I would love to see stories covering some of that six years, because at the moment we can only imagine.

In Snuff, Vimes has been a Duke for six years - seven - Sybil discovered she was pregnant just before they went to Uberwald. In that time he must have been learning how to be one while we weren't watching. But... he is not the self-confident aristocrat that some of you have suggested when we see him in Snuff. At the beginning, he is being dragged off from his job to play the part of country squire, and getting him to go is like prising a limpet off a rock. When he gets there, he talks to the staff oblivious of the fact that they view him as their superior, then he wanders down to the village pub and hopes, against all common sense, to be treated like one of the boys. He is disturbed to discover that he is viewed as a privileged toff and wishes he wasn't. He's still the same old Vimes inside, no matter what the trappings of wealth and a title have given him. He uses those trappings to his advantage, but I would not agree that he embraces the position with confidence and comfort. He is always 'wearing his street uniform' under the brocade and red tights.( Actually, I don't think he ever actually got to wear those red tights, he worked very hard to make sure of that.) As he always has, he comes alive when the chase is on. When he finds himself in the middle of the action, just as in all his other stories, he revels in the thrill of it. This is what he was born to do and that is the character trait in Vimes that has run through all his stories. I cannot see why any of you see the Snuff Vimes as a different person than the Vimes that has gone before. He must grow and mature, just as any fictional (and real) person must do, but Vimesness is still there, loud and strong.

On the point of him not being manipulated any more in Snuff, I beg to differ. He is manipulated by Vetinari to be where Vetinari knew there was mischief happening (someone else said that already); he is manipulated by Sybil and the mother of the sisters to give them a lecture on the way they could run their lives; he is manipulated on to the hill to be framed for the murder of the blacksmith. Vimes is not always in control in this book, but when the long fried things are down (sorry Sir T) he grabs control and doesn't let go, as he always has before.

As for leaving his son unprotected in his cabin. That did not happen. Vimes pretended to get drunk to allow Stratford to be more confident, and when Stratford broke into what should have been young Sam's room he found himself jumped on by Vimes senior who had been lying in wait, and the boy somewhere else altogether.

The one thing that puzzles me in the story is the existence of the Summoning Dark in Vimes at all. At the end of Thud, as I understood it, the SD left him, driven out by what called itself the Guarding Dark: the part of Vimes that keeps the Beast at bay. The scar on his wrist was left by the departure of the SD. So to find it still in him in Snuff seems like a continuity error and one I'd like to have explained. Or did I read that part of Thud wrongly?
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Re: Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

Postby Tonyblack » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:35 pm

The way I see it is that in Thud!, we learn that the SD arrives when someone makes its mark and demands justice. Sam still has the mark and one of the goblins makes the demand for justice. The SD uses other people's bodies as tools to dish out justice and it finds Sam somewhat sympathetic to be used, even if he doesn't realise it. :)
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Re: Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

Postby Margi » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:14 pm

Margi wrote:The one thing that puzzles me in the story is the existence of the Summoning Dark in Vimes at all. At the end of Thud, as I understood it, the SD left him, driven out by what called itself the Guarding Dark: the part of Vimes that keeps the Beast at bay. The scar on his wrist was left by the departure of the SD. So to find it still in him in Snuff seems like a continuity error and one I'd like to have explained. Or did I read that part of Thud wrongly?


Okay. I just found it. In Snuff, where Vimes is finding his way through the goblin caves for the first time, the Summoning Dark is explained and we are told how it comes back to him sometimes. Funny how you miss things and re-reading always finds something new.
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Re: Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

Postby anapoda » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:57 am

I haven't really enjoyed a book written by Pratchett since Making Money. (2007)

And man, it sure is not going to change with this one. Snuff is definitely the weakest Watch book.

In fact the book bored me so much that it took me like a whole damn week to reach the final page.

How low the mighty have fallen...time sure is taking its toll on Pratchett.
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Re: Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

Postby Tonyblack » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:03 am

I find myself in almost total disagreement with you there, anapoda. I thought Making Money was the worse DW book I have ever read and have really enjoyed the ones written since then. But it wouldn't do if we were all the same.

Welcome to the site. :D
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Re: Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

Postby raisindot » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:01 pm

Hi, Anapoda!

I'm in complete agreement with you there. With the exception of "I Shall Wear Midnight," all of Pterry's post Making Money novels have seen a huge decline in his skills.
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Re: Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

Postby Margi » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:42 pm

Well that just goes to prove how different we all are.

I love classical music, my son loves heavy metal. I hate ketchup and my hubby loves it! I love Marmite and he hates it.

I love the Watch books - all of them - and some of you prefer the Witches or the Industrial Revolution ones, or many others. Sir Terry brings different styles to each series. Always himself, but with different attitudes. I don't think I would say that his skill has diminished, but his style has changed - matured maybe. His books have become darker. But hey! I like dark. 8-) So they suit me. For me the comedy is just a fun addition to some rollicking good stories set in an intricately complete, fantastic world.

I do sometimes notice the odd continuity error, or some repetitions of things said before, but then that happens in any long series of books by even the very best authors - and that includes Sir Terry, who still writes amazingly well despite his mind doing its best to wander off on its own sometimes.

Ok, I've sucked up enough, I'm going to shutup now.
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Re: Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

Postby Loopyc » Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:01 am

I love all the Discworld books but is anyone else struggling with 'judgement day?
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Re: Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

Postby =Tamar » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:38 am

Loopyc wrote:I love all the Discworld books but is anyone else struggling with 'judgement day?

Not yet. *sigh*
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Re: Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

Postby Loopyc » Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:42 am

Sorry - are we not supposed to discuss it yet? :oops:
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Re: Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

Postby Loopyc » Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:23 am

Do you have the book yet Tamar?
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Re: Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

Postby Tonyblack » Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:50 am

Loopyc wrote:Sorry - are we not supposed to discuss it yet? :oops:

No, you can go ahead and discuss it. Just be aware that some people may not have read it yet, so watch out for spoilers.

Better still, I'll post a thread with spoiler warnings where you can post spoilers to your heart's content. :D
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Re: Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

Postby =Tamar » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:18 am

Loopyc wrote:Do you have the book yet Tamar?

No. The delivery should happen this week sometime.
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