RIP PC Fiona Bone and PC Nicola Hughes

[Tonyblack]

If you arm the police I kind of suspect that one of the things you'll get the situation they have in the US where suicide by cop has become fairly common.

Has anyone been watching the TV series set in Liverpool, 'Good Cop'? That started with a situation where two cops were deliberately lured into a situation where they were set upon and one was beaten to death. I watched the first episode and found it very disturbing, I also thought it was a bit unlikely . . . sadly I was wrong.

[Bouncy Castle]

Even if these two poor girls had been armed, I doubt it would have helped in this situation. They were lured there with the intent to kill them.

[Who's Wee Dug]

Innocent women just doing their job, sometimes there is a case for capital punnishment.

[Bouncy Castle]

Innocent women just doing their job, sometimes there is a case for capital punnishment.

A case for:

Murder
Rape
Child abduction/rape/murder

Just about covers it all, including the killing of security services.

With DNA technology these days, is there anyone who could be not guilty, unless they were set up?




DISCUSS

[Dotsie]

The trouble with DNA evidence is that people expect to see some, or they think the suspect must be innocent. It's useful if it's there, but if it's not then other lines of evidence should be used instead. But at which point do you think that ievidence becomes proof, and decide to take a man's life because of it?

I don't believe in capital punishment, I don't think there are any grey areas. If someone touched my sister I would kill him myself, so it would be comforting to know that I wouldn't face the death penalty.

[Bouncy Castle]

Explain "touched" ?

Not being funny or nowt, but....

[Jan Van Quirm]

Like Dotsie says the presence of DNA evidence isn't always 100% conclusive so police must still prove the crime within reasonable doubt via the usual methods of putting the perpetrator at the crime scene with established motivation and other types of corroboration such as CCTV footage, witnesses etc. Even in rape cases (and lets leave sexual politics out it for a moment) where it's a 'regular' relationship by date or cohabitation the police still have a job to nail things, especially if there's no definitive physical evidence of a struggle to show that force was used in some manner...

And then there's the Derek Bentley argument... (the 'let him have it' case where the gunman was 16 and the educationally-challenged but adult Bentley was his partner in the interrupted robbery where a copper was killed) where the evidence is suspect or just plain mistaken. At least if someone's jailed then they have the appeal process which is by no means a pushover, but at least means those few people who are wrongly imprisoned have a chance to prove it eventually.

I personally believe that life imprisonment (and I mean life, not 20 years or whatever with parole) is a better punishment for really hard core crimes where a life has been violently ended or irretrievably ruined (so rape etc) as then the perpetrator has their life taken from them and must suffer for it to the end - just like their victims or the families and friends whose lives are likewise blighted. In cases like the Moors Murderers, human rights arguments should rightly have no effect because there's no reprieve for people like the mother of Keith Bennett who died recently without his body ever having been found so she could at least know he had a decent burial. That's a far better Justice system whether or not the prisoner has been rehabilitated. Why should they have their life back no matter how sorry they are or how little is left of a sentence?

I think that's actually a far better deterrent and more civilised alternative to execution where animals like this man are forced to live with the consequences of their actions for the rest of their miserable days. I hope they throw the book at him and anybody who harboured him while he was breaking bail. Prison's also more of a deterrent I think - there's no glory hole then for psychos like this guy.

[Dotsie]

Explain "touched" ?

Not being funny or nowt, but....

She can look after herself, I'm not so crazy that I'll kill someone for pinching her bum

[wicked woman]

Brave ladies - RIP

I agree that there should be no moves to arm Police any more than they are already - our gun laws mean that few people carry them with intent like this but in urban areas where there is a lamentable degree of lawlessness I think officers should automatically be wearing more protective gear on those beats (if only because of the prevalence of edged weapons) and should be issued with better communication equipment as a matter of course so back up can be called in more effectively.

Very true Jan.

[Catch-up]

How awful. I'm so sorry for these officers and their families.

[Mrs Ogg]

I have only just read this. That's such a tragedy! Their poor families. Sending condolences from Australia.