What language do you "think" in?

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Re: What language do you "think" in?

Postby Bouncy Castle » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:12 pm

:oops:
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Re: What language do you "think" in?

Postby Del » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:16 pm

Bouncy Castle wrote::oops:


:? What did I do now???
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Re: What language do you "think" in?

Postby Seimimac » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:22 pm

I think a lot of what you write is very true, Del. I know that my language changes depending on which member of my extended family I speak to, not just changing from Irish to English, but the way I use both languages.

My 2 girls from my previous marriage are now 18 and 19, and I only speak to the eldest in Irish, but her sister - with her, it's this strange mixture of Irish and English. We both do it. We throw half an English sentence into an Irish sentence, or we substitute English words for Irish ones, not because we don't know the words, but because that's how we talk :)

My stepchildren, 11 and 13, are different again. I try to use as much Irish as possible with the 13 year old, but a lot of English gets in. The 11 year old is a completely different. He has Asperger's, and although very high-functioning, he is extremely literal, so you can't use too flowery language around him. Also, he hasn't got the greatest attention span, so sometimes he'll look straight at you, and give the impression that he's listening as you say, for example, 'That was such a hard day. The work nearly killed me.', and then ask you, 'Who got killed at work? :doh:

As for our babby, he's different again, as all toddlers are. 2 and a half and sharp as a very sharp thing :)

When I'm in work, my language is very official at times, full of legislative terms and linguistic terminology in Irish. But when I'm with my cousin, who is the same age as myself (43), I'm like a 12 year old schoolboy, giggling at playground jokes and making up stupid rhymes and stories :lol:

If you don't mind me asking - what's the story with Hayden?
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Re: What language do you "think" in?

Postby pip » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:40 pm

Is there many as fluent 'as gaeilge' in Belfast. Well done on keeping the language going either way.
Have a fainne but to be honest i've let it slip over the last few years
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Re: What language do you "think" in?

Postby Bouncy Castle » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:43 pm

Del wrote:
Bouncy Castle wrote::oops:


:? What did I do now???


My lovely accent. I blush.
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Re: What language do you "think" in?

Postby Seimimac » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:46 pm

Hi Pip :)

There are several thousand 'fluent' speakers in Belfast. My parents raised us here with Irish as our first language, as did quite a few other families. They also helped found Ireland's first, and as far as I know, still its only, urban Gaeltacht, as well as founding the first Irish medium primary school in the north. From the initial 9 pupils in that first class in 1971, there are now over 4000 pupils being taught through the medium of Irish in the north every year, and the figure just keeps growing :)

The language is alive and well in this part of the country, with plenty of services and social outlets :)
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Re: What language do you "think" in?

Postby pip » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:50 pm

Seimimac wrote:Hi Pip :)

There are several thousand 'fluent' speakers in Belfast. My parents raised us here with Irish as our first language, as did quite a few other families. They also helped found Ireland's first, and as far as I know, still its only, urban Gaeltacht, as well as founding the first Irish medium primary school in the north. From the initial 9 pupils in that first class in 1971, there are now over 4000 pupils being taught through the medium of Irish in the north every year, and the figure just keeps growing :)

The language is alive and well in this part of the country, with plenty of services and social outlets :)


You learn something new every day :D
There is a Gaetacht recently started in Ballymun Dublin in the last year or so. I had a son very very recently ( its documented elsewhere ) and we have signed him up for the local Gaelscoil so we're trying down south as well :D
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Re: What language do you "think" in?

Postby Seimimac » Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:55 pm

The folks in Ballymun are brilliant! When we were trying to start our school, back in the 70s, they were thinking of the same thing, so the 2 groups would support each other and visit each other. When they heard our school was due to open, against the stated wishes of the then government (they threatened the parents with going to jail!), they marched into the Department of Education offices in Dublin and held a sit-down protest, refusing to leave until they were given permission to start a school. They got it :)

I was down there a few years ago, and the work they're doing is fantastic :)
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Re: What language do you "think" in?

Postby Del » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:16 pm

Hayden has severe dyspaxia (or Apraxia).

You would be familiar with it in the way people lose speech after a stroke and they have to relearn how to make speech. With their type of dyspraxia they are "relighting" the neurological pathways... with Haydens she has to form them.


http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/voice/p ... raxia.aspx

Others believe it is a neurological disorder that affects the brain’s ability to send the proper signals to move the muscles involved in speech
.

People with either form of apraxia of speech may have a number of different speech characteristics, or symptoms. One of the most notable symptoms is difficulty putting sounds and syllables together in the correct order to form words. Longer or more complex words are usually harder to say than shorter or simpler words. People with apraxia of speech also tend to make inconsistent mistakes when speaking. For example, they may say a difficult word correctly but then have trouble repeating it, or they may be able to say a particular sound one day and have trouble with the same sound the next day. People with apraxia of speech often appear to be groping for the right sound or word, and may try saying a word several times before they say it correctly. Another common characteristic of apraxia of speech is the incorrect use of “prosody” — that is, the varying rhythms, stresses, and inflections of speech that are used to help express meaning.

Children with developmental apraxia of speech generally can understand language much better than they are able to use language to express themselves. Some children with the disorder may also have other problems. These can include other speech problems, such as dysarthria; language problems such as poor vocabulary, incorrect grammar, and difficulty in clearly organizing spoken information; problems with reading, writing, spelling, or math; coordination or “motor-skill” problems; and chewing and swallowing difficulties.

The severity of both acquired and developmental apraxia of speech varies from person to person. Apraxia can be so mild that a person has trouble with very few speech sounds or only has occasional problems pronouncing words with many syllables. In the most severe cases, a person may not be able to communicate effectively with speech, and may need the help of alternative or additional communication methods.


Its a long story. They really dont know what causes it. Not enough money on research; strange when millions of $ a year is spent in helping support these kids in school. Mainly happens to boys. I think because some have it SO mildly its often missed, or it gets passed off as a "grammar" or literacy problem. Haydens was hard to miss as she had no speech except "eeeee" for the first 3 or 4 years of her life. We were excited when she got 2 syllables and never thought she would do three. Once she did get three around 7 she steamed ahead. Its like watching a small baby/toddler develop language that we take for granted but watching it like treacle run uphill.... it happens in slow motion and you have to push amd practise for every inch. Her throat and tongue and mouth muscles have to acquire "muscle memory" over and over to acquire every new nuance of a sound.

Unfortunately because the early stages of therapy are currently focussed on forming sounds the window to form grammar is missed. When a regular child forms words they are also forming grammar and as more sounds come then other pathways shutdown and the pathways for grammar branch out and come alive. Personally I believe that the therapy should be augmented with sign language as children without speech who learn sign language (eg: hearing impaired) DO learn grammar and when in later life have coclear implants and learn to speak, have the grammar to support the speech. We did learn Macaton before speech. It was a one word sign language and that was hard enough so I have no idea if she could have handled grammar as well. She didnt seem able to. It consumed us 24/7 at first (well it had to... we need to be able communicate to her) but I backed off from being super-mum one day and still do the lessons but not to the degree where all else comes a far distant second. She needed to enjoy her life as a kid as well, and we needed to enjoy her.

As sad as it is... its why the children they find who have been raised in cruel situations without input (think the movie Nell.. what a load of rubbish that movie is!) learn to speak but not with grammar. Children like that provide an insight as to how the brain develops the pathways to speech, and what can be achieved and what cant after a certain age.

The "window" is said to close at age 10, and we have seen that happen to a large degree. Things that used to take 4 weeks to learn are now taking 4 months (she is 12).... but she has suprised us over and over. I have been keeping a keen eye on research (love the medical imaging nowadays) that shows how the brain can repair and advance itself. Stem cell implants may one day do something though its a big ask. Still way too early. And I dont hold my breath. This isnt a "mainstream" condition so doesnt get the research funding or the scientists to do the research into it. It doesnt appear to have a DNA signature but I have spoken to a geneticist who believes like me its a case of one of the proteins not being taken up.... and when you think about the advances in DNA research, as wonderful as it is, the real research into proteins and how they are taken up by DNA (and yes they WILL find a way to switch that off for certain kinds of cancers) finding the right link for this particular problem is light years away. Noone is looking.

And no dont worry if Hayden sees this. We live with it and she kind of knows the slog of getting her brain talk to her mouth. Most kids have to have therapy for aaaaages at first just to get them calm enough to consider therapy (frustration and behavioural problems).... We are all blessed that Hayden has the most wicked sense of humour and a wonderful disposition :D :D
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Re: What language do you "think" in?

Postby Jan Van Quirm » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:25 pm

Del wrote:The number of times I have gone to type "NOT HAPPY JAN! " in a post and not done it because its not an integral part of your language..... though it says BUCKETLOADS here in Australia; and it has nothing at all to do with Jan Van Quirm!

:shifty: Wot?! :P
"Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not.” George Bernard Shaw
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Re: What language do you "think" in?

Postby Del » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:38 pm

Jan Van Quirm wrote:
Del wrote:The number of times I have gone to type "NOT HAPPY JAN! " in a post and not done it because its not an integral part of your language..... though it says BUCKETLOADS here in Australia; and it has nothing at all to do with Jan Van Quirm!

:shifty: Wot?! :P


It has worked its way into our language Jan....

Basically..... RUN! You have done something really bad (or haven't done something you should have) and you should RUN!

The phrase 'not happy Jan' was popularised by an Australian Telstra ad realised in 2002. It quickly entered the Aussie vernacular.
It is used when someone is pissed off at another person (who doesn't necessarily need to be called Jan) for stuffing up in a stupid way and has inconvenienced you - but is used when more annoyed than actually angry.
Argh! I can't believe that the postman hasn't delivered my package today! NOT HAPPY JAN!


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Re: What language do you "think" in?

Postby Who's Wee Dug » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:01 pm

That's sounds the London saying Not happy Harry or as they say it "not appy arry" in similar situations.
He willnae tak' a drink! I think he's deid! , on the other hand though A Midgie in yir hand is worth twa up yir kilt.
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Re: What language do you "think" in?

Postby Batty » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:47 pm

Del wrote:Not just languages either.... dont you all "change" your mind set when you speak to different people in your social circles? Your language changes?

It certainly does! ... Sometimes it's 'Dead Parrot', and sometimes it's half-way intelligible!Image
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Re: What language do you "think" in?

Postby Del » Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:55 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh I know how to speak "Dead Parrot"... its when you are speaking to your relative who is going on and on and on about someone or something in the family and you sit there with that "I'm not saying anything!" look.... because if you agree it will set them off for another two hours and if you disagree they will go for the throat.

The only Dead Parrot phrase permitted is "Shall I make some more tea?" and "Would you like another scone?" although the scone one can be tricky.... dependant upon the number of scones already eaten and the relatives current weight and how they are feeling about that at that particular moment in time....
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Re: What language do you "think" in?

Postby Batty » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:09 pm

Del wrote::lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh I know how to speak "Dead Parrot"... its when you are speaking to your relative who is going on and on and on about someone or something in the family and you sit there with that "I'm not saying anything!" look.... because if you agree it will set them off for another two hours and if you disagree they will go for the throat.

The only Dead Parrot phrase permitted is "Shall I make some more tea?" and "Would you like another scone?" although the scone one can be tricky.... dependant upon the number of scones already eaten and the relatives current weight and how they are feeling about that at that particular moment in time....

Image Then you look innocently at them, and say ... 'No, Really ... They'll only go to waste otherwise ...'
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