The Agony Aunts

[Dotsie]

Dotsie and Sadie seem to have been pensioners all their lives, but if they ever had younger days, what do you suppose they did? Do you think they could be retired seamstresses? Is there anything anyone can remember about who they provide their protective services to, and if it's just seamstresses?

I have my reasons for asking

[Jan Van Quirm]

Well there is the young lady in Nightwatch who was a genuine seamstress (Sandra Battye? ) and was befriended by Rosie Palm... Knitting needles and Bring and Buy sales are also mentioned in relation to the Agony Aunts so the two trades (literal and figurative) aren't mutally exclusive and in fact seem to have some kind of symbiotic existence was/is in place? After all there might be quite a trade in accidently discarded clothing in the more high profile Seamstress industry.

* Actually there's a Roundworld co-relation too in Terry's current fave era - during Victorian times lots of rich gentlemen set their mistresses up in posh house in places like St John's Wood in London where quite a lot of genuine society seamstresses had their premises, thus supplying a reason for them to be in that neighbourhood, presumably 'picking up something for the wife'... Also in Russia, roughly the same era - that's what Lara's mum was in Dr. Zhivago :P

Interesting article HERE speculating on whether they are in fact incarnations of minor deities for wimmins rights Bissonomy and Tubso

*Edited part added after Pip posted...

[pip]

:D Well there is the young lady in Nightwatch who was a genuine seamstress (Sandra Battye? ) and was befriended by Rosie Palm...

Interesting article HEREon whether they in fact incarnations of minor deities for wimmins rights Bissonomy and Tubso

But the Agony Aunts were in Nightwatch as well so couldn't be Sandra . Unless its a dead womans boots job

[Jan Van Quirm]

Sorry - edited my post while you were posting which might take it further. But yes, Sandra's still going in modern AM and wasn't an Agony Aunt although the tools of her trade could be used offensively too.

In fact in no guild Nightwatch times AM 'seamstresses' would probably have needed enforcers even more.

[pip]

Now my post looks silly

[Jan Van Quirm]

And this is unusual because...?

Will mark up the bit I inserted while you were shootin' from the hip

[Dotsie]

I'm not really going for the L-space because it's just speculation, so I wanted to attract specualtion from a wider audience

There seems to be a bit of confusion regarding the seamstresses comments. Basically, do you think that Dotsie and Sadie used to be prostitutes, and that's why they protect prostitutes now? Or is there evidence that they protect all women (Sandra Battye aside, as she befriended Rosie Palm and is so part of the inner circle of hoors)?

Lets lay it out - if you saw a 40-year-old Dotsie, what would she look like?

[Jan Van Quirm]

Well if we're talking cosplay opps? I'm basing Sadie very much along the lines of a kind of Bet Lynch meets shades of the Giles 'Grandma' with tatty leopard-skin fake-fur coat and brandishing the parrot-headed umbrella which can both poke and double as a cudgel (the parrot handle's really heavy and I shall have to take it to Ops I think... )

So yeah - superannuated ladies of negotiable affection who aren't smart enough to make it to Guild leader status like Rosie, but excel at outstanding fee collection and dealing with naughty punters who abuse the by-laws and practitioners of the ancient service industry. Another option is that they might not have been 'front of house' operatives in their youth but worked on the more domestic side of things, keeping the Whorepits neat and tidy, throwing out the drunks and generally making sure everyone got their fair share of the takings? Before the guild there'd either have been Roundworld-style pimps or the girls would have taken security arrangements into their own hands so the more 'statuesque' and athletic types would have gravitated from traditional roles to the 'enforcing' one so their friends were safer with them around

[Dotsie]

OK, cool. I'm looking for a proto-Dotsie costume really. I think she was a hoor, partly because it fits with her status now, and partly cos I want to dress like a hoor Just wanted to see if others could see that working. Maybe, I suppose!

[michelanCello]

Preparing for the Gala Dinner, are you, Dotsie?

[Bouncy Castle]

OK, cool. I'm looking for a proto-Dotsie costume really. I think she was a hoor, partly because it fits with her status now, and partly cos I want to dress like a hoor Just wanted to see if others could see that working. Maybe, I suppose!

[Jan Van Quirm]

Preparing for the Gala Dinner, are you, Dotsie?

We may have them at the Temple of Lady for the Bingo as well

Actually that's quite a good idea... Anyone got a bingo draw machine thingie?

[Tonyblack]

My impression of Dotsie and Sadie was that they were two spinster sisters who happened to live in an area frequented by ladies of the night and their clients. The sisters probably had a sense of 'poor defenceless women getting bothered by nasty men' and they were determined to do something about it. So they became vigilantes and sorted out any male troublemakers. The working girls were happy with the situation and D&S felt they were doing a service to the community. The Watch didn't mind as it was a place they didn't like to police, so a blind eye was turned.

A sort of parallel to this is like the area my sister lives, where there is a good deal of curb crawling going on. Some residents there go out with digital cameras and take photos of the offenders.

But we really don't know what was in Terry's mind when he created them. Terry is often vague with such things and leaves interpretation to the reader.

[raptornx01]

Maybe not so vague. i got the same impression. its never said they worked FOR the seamstresses but Vimes had made comments, even in other books, about the sisters in a context outside of the guild. (can't remember the exact ones at the moment though)

But i can see no problem with the idea of them also having been seamstresses. make sure you have nice, hefty handbag

[michelanCello]

Preparing for the Gala Dinner, are you, Dotsie?

We may have them at the Temple of Lady for the Bingo as well

Actually that's quite a good idea... Anyone got a bingo draw machine thingie?

I think I used to have a small one... wouldn't know where I put it, though