Snuff: Who was the barman? (SPOILERS)

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Snuff: Who was the barman? (SPOILERS)

Postby tmoh » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:49 pm

I think I may have misunderstood something...I thought it was Stratford disguised as a bartender on the Roberta E. Biscuit, and I included that when I wrote his wiki article. But recently somebody's changed it to say that Willikins was the barman! What's the correct interpretation here?
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Re: Snuff: Who was the barman? (SPOILERS)

Postby raisindot » Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:23 pm

Stratford was disguised as the barman. Vimes didn't recognize him at first, but after awhile the penny dropped. Go change that wiki article back. :D
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Re: Snuff: Who was the barman? (SPOILERS)

Postby meerkat » Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:18 pm

If it was Stratford, how come he knew how to make the Virgin Sam Vimes? :?
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Re: Snuff: Who was the barman? (SPOILERS)

Postby raptornx01 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:31 pm

Yeah, it was willikins. i honestly thought stratford at first too. but they clearly mention that Willikins made the drinks.
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Re: Snuff: Who was the barman? (SPOILERS)

Postby tmoh » Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:40 pm

I posted the same question on dA and tumblr as well as here, and most of the people on those sites voted Stratford. :think: The explanation I've been seeing for the drinks is that Willikins could've switched them out when barman!Stratford wasn't looking? Mr Stratford certainly isn't as smart as he thinks he is...

I'm beginning to wonder if they aren't both the barman! :lol:
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Re: Snuff: Who was the barman? (SPOILERS)

Postby Toothy » Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:23 pm

It was Willikins.

When Stratford is caught in what should have been Young Sam's cabin by Vimes, Stratford comments that he saw Vimes drink several cocktails and everyone knows Vimes is a 'lush'. He is then told that Willikins was the bartender and made Vimes a 'virgin' version of the cocktail. It had been a set up. Vimes knew that Stratford would try to kill Young Sam, so he and Willikins had clearly arranged for Willikins to pose as a bartender (no one else knew who he was) and Vimes would pretend to be the worse for drink to lull Stratford into thinking he would be able to attack the child unopposed. He mistook Sybil's snoring for that of the 'drunken' Vimes. Vimes, subsequently assisted by Willikins', was thus able to capture Stratford as planned. And there you have it.

I've listened to the audiobook so many times, I could almost quote this section! :D
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Re: Snuff: Who was the barman? (SPOILERS)

Postby Tonyblack » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:31 pm

I thought it was Willikins as well. :?
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Re: Snuff: Who was the barman? (SPOILERS)

Postby Toothy » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:45 am

The reader is supposed, initially, to think that this unknown bartender is Stratford, but the story unfolds to reveal that it was in fact Willikins. Also, think about it. By that time, Vimes knew what Stratford looked like and it would have had to be something of a disguise to deceive Vimes, and that is beyond Stratford's capabilities - he hasn't got that kind of subtlety. Also, during the dialogue after he was captured, Stratford would have mentioned he was the bartender if that had been the case, not just that he'd observed Vimes drinking the cocktail, e.g. something along the lines of 'and I gave you three of those cocktails!' TP would have given that much of a clue at the very least if he'd intended it to be Stratford.

If you still really doubt it, you could always ask the author! ;)
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Re: Snuff: Who was the barman? (SPOILERS)

Postby Dotsie » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:37 pm

It was definitely Willikins.
What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!
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Re: Snuff: Who was the barman? (SPOILERS)

Postby raisindot » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:44 pm

Much as I dislike the book, I gotta go back and re-read this part.
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Re: Snuff: Who was the barman? (SPOILERS)

Postby meerkat » Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:56 pm

I shall ask Sir Tel if it was Willikins at the Con! I want to collar him for a Caroc reading anyway! (it is Willikins! ;) ).
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Re: Snuff: Who was the barman? (SPOILERS)

Postby Toothy » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:36 am

Oh yes, do that, Meerrkat! :D

I've often wondered at the similarity between the name Willikins and TP's PA, Rob Wlkins. TP says he relates most to Sam Vimes, so... :think:
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Re: Snuff: Who was the barman? (SPOILERS)

Postby meerkat » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:02 am

I will, but there is no need to roll your R's at me (Meerrkat)! :lol: ;)
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Re: Snuff: Who was the barman? (SPOILERS)

Postby raisindot » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:36 pm

You'all are right. Willikens definitely was the bartender. Pterry tries to throw you a curve ball making you think because someone mentions they had never seen the bartender before and because it took a few minutes for the bartender to get up to speed on inventing the Sam Vimes cocktail that it could be Stratford.
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Re: Snuff: Who was the barman? (SPOILERS)

Postby Toothy » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:56 pm

meerkat wrote:I will, but there is no need to roll your R's at me (Meerrkat)! :lol: ;)


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Spot on, raisindot! :D
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