The Art of Reading?

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Postby swreader » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:08 am

Pooh, you aren't being funny--just annoying. And your attempts at humor (sorry) really hit a nerve tonight.

Given the state of the world,
the fact that global warming is real and a threat to US national security, and of course to the security of all the rest of the world,

that we have idiots like my Senator (Jon Kyle) or Sarah Palin doing their damndest to keep any reform of health care from being passed in the only industrialized nation that doesn't provide some type of health care for it's citizens,

that the economy is only perhaps at the bottom but we still have a long ways to go, and those are only the most obvious ones.

All that makes me feel, tonight at least, that Arnold had it right--

The last lines of Dover Beach seem a much more eloquent statement of what I feel about the future. And that is one of the things that the Art of Reading brings us--words that express our feelings better than we can.

... for the world, which seems
To lie before us like a land of dreams,
So various, so beautiful, so new,
Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,
Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain;
And we are here as on a darkling plain
Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
Where ignorant armies clash by night
.
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Postby Exp. Date, the rat » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:11 am

swreader wrote:Pooh, you aren't being funny--just annoying. And your attempts at humor (sorry) really hit a nerve tonight.

Given the state of the world,
the fact that global warming is real and a threat to US national security, and of course to the security of all the rest of the world,

that we have idiots like my Senator (Jon Kyle) or Sarah Palin doing their damndest to keep any reform of health care from being passed in the only industrialized nation that doesn't provide some type of health care for it's citizens,

that the economy is only perhaps at the bottom but we still have a long ways to go, and those are only the most obvious ones.

All that makes me feel, tonight at least, that Arnold had it right--

The last lines of Dover Beach seem a much more eloquent statement of what I feel about the future. And that is one of the things that the Art of Reading brings us--words that express our feelings better than we can.

... for the world, which seems
To lie before us like a land of dreams,
So various, so beautiful, so new,
Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,
Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain;
And we are here as on a darkling plain
Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
Where ignorant armies clash by night
.


Did you post this in the right area Charlene? What does this have to do about reading and writing? I lost the thread somewhere I think!
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Postby Tonyblack » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:38 am

You certainly have Doug. :D

The thread has moved on and we've been talking (amongst other things) about poetry.
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Postby poohbcarrot » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:45 am

swreader wrote:Pooh, you aren't being funny--just annoying. And your attempts at humor (sorry) really hit a nerve tonight.

Given the state of the world,
the fact that global warming is real and a threat to US national security, and of course to the security of all the rest of the world,

that we have idiots like my Senator (Jon Kyle) or Sarah Palin doing their damndest to keep any reform of health care from being passed in the only industrialized nation that doesn't provide some type of health care for it's citizens,

that the economy is only perhaps at the bottom but we still have a long ways to go, and those are only the most obvious ones.

All that makes me feel, tonight at least, that Arnold had it right--

The last lines of Dover Beach seem a much more eloquent statement of what I feel about the future. And that is one of the things that the Art of Reading brings us--words that express our feelings better than we can.

... for the world, which seems
To lie before us like a land of dreams,
So various, so beautiful, so new,
Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,
Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain;
And we are here as on a darkling plain
Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
Where ignorant armies clash by night
.


Eh? :?

My apologies for attempting to make people smile when all this serious stuff is happening to your country. Just out of interest, what did I say wrong, because I wouldn't like to repeat my error?

Are you referring to my remark in response to Dotsie, after she had called "your peom" a glorified chat-up line?

Or are you referring to the fact that I am right and "the thinking man" isn't a pronoun?

Or are you referring to the fact that I made a comment about Jan writing long posts and you took it personally?
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Postby Exp. Date, the rat » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:46 am

But why has Charlene said that she has gotten annoyed about what Pooh wrote? What about ths state of the world, governments and all that stuff? Where di pooh write bout that? I am totally confused? I think I need to have a lay down! :?
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Postby Dotsie » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:05 am

I said I thought it was an elaborate pick up line. Lots of poems are, that's not that unusual. Pooh & I joked about it, but just because we said what we did it shouldn't offend anyone who likes the poem. We certainly didn't say anything offensive about the US government, it policies on global warming, or the sorry state of the planet.
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Postby Tonyblack » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:23 am

I wouldn't dream of apologising for what Sharlene posted - that's up to her if she thinks it necessary, but having had a letter from her this morning that she wrote last night, I know she was extremely depressed and in a great deal of physical pain. :(

Hopefully she'll get a good night's sleep and feel better today.

Fingers crossed.
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:07 pm

Chill pill time folks! :lol: Part of the art of reading is playing with words and ideas - and people have different ideas of what constitutes play? Huh? 8)

poohbcarrot wrote:
Jan Van Quirm wrote:Women should think more and yak less and men should just think less (and do as they're told naturally).


Firstly, I reckon you put one word too many in your post.

Secondly, coming from the woman whose posts are the size of a Sunday newspaper colour supplement, it's a bit rich!
and here was I thinking you had some working experience over the meaning of words pooh? :P

Firstly, I take it that it's 'yak' you're objecting to, which I generally assign to meaning talking as in moving the lips and other mouth parts and vocal chords in largely meaningless and trite speech aka gossip or chatter or whining, whinging and generally being very boring indeed - vocally

Secondly, writing and length thereof is totally different and something I don't tend to make an effort with for people who I don't think will appreciate or be amused with it. I do it for my own amusement of course but I don't 'do it' just anywhere or for no reason.

I do however know when to stop or at least modify the teasing and acknowledge that people are sometimes 'differently good-humoured' or have just had a rotten day. *:) sweetly*

Hope you're doing better today Sharlene *hugs*
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Postby Trish » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:44 pm

poohbcarrot wrote:Raise!

A pronoun takes the place of a noun. You can't use a definite or indefinite article with a pronoun. You can't use an adjective before a pronoun. The following sentence is silly!

"The besotted I love the beautiful you. :?

"The thinking man" defies both of these rules. 8)

You're using the word "Man" as an uncountable noun referring to the group of humans. Just like the following setence;

"The cheetah is the fastest animal"

By your logic, "the cheetah" is a pronoun.

Raise, or fold? :twisted:



Call.
Poetry and logic do not generally exist side by side.
If they did, poetry would be prose and read like stereo instructions.

"Man" refers to humankind, to mankind, to each person.
Just as "he" was an approved pronoun for centuries, so is "man" in my sentence.

It is in context and it makes sense if I'd said: " the thinking mankind's poet" or "the thinking human's poet."
Although the first is a mouthful, it is not grammatically incorrect.
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Postby Trish » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:48 pm

swreader wrote: All that makes me feel, tonight at least, that Arnold had it right--

The last lines of Dover Beach seem a much more eloquent statement of what I feel about the future. And that is one of the things that the Art of Reading brings us--words that express our feelings better than we can.

... for the world, which seems
To lie before us like a land of dreams,
So various, so beautiful, so new,
Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,
Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain;
And we are here as on a darkling plain
Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
Where ignorant armies clash by night
.



When Arnold wrote that, debtor's prison still existed, there was no health care, there were no pensions, there was no such things as homeowner's right or worker's rights or any of the "safeties" we have, wrongly, taken for granted.
And may yet lose if Palin et al have their way.
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Postby Dotsie » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:26 pm

I thought that Arnold wrote that because he felt the comfort of faith slipping away with the increase in scientific knowledge, which is why I don't really agree with it. But I can see that people read poems and put their own interpretation on them, and as such can find comfort there themselves.

I don't think anyone needs that chill pill Jan, but thanks anyway :wink:
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Postby poohbcarrot » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:26 pm

Trish wrote:His poetry is for the thinking man.


If the above is a line from a poem, then their is a 5% chance you could be right. But I see no inverted commas, and there is no name associated with it. So, I don't believe for one second that it is a line from a poem, so we are talking purely grammar. Grammatically speaking you are 100% wrong.

My dictionary, second and third entries under the word "man".

2. Uncountable noun. human beings as a group or from a particular period of history.

- the damage caused by man to the environment
- early/modern/Prehistoric man

3. Countable noun. (literary or old-fashioned) a person, either male or female.

- All men must die"
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Postby Dotsie » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:30 pm

One of my favourite poems. It makes me feel warm and optimistic :D I love the way she can feel happy about such little things.

The Orange – Wendy Cope

At lunchtime I bought a huge orange –
The size of it made us all laugh.
I peeled it and shared it with Robert and Dave –
They got quarters and I had a half.

And that orange, it made me so happy,
As ordinary things often do
Just lately. The shopping. A walk in the park.
This is peace and contentment. It’s new

The rest of the day was quite easy.
I did all the jobs on my list
And enjoyed them and had some time over.
I love you. I’m glad I exist.
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Postby poohbcarrot » Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:37 pm

Dotsie wrote:I thought that Arnold wrote that because he felt the comfort of faith slipping away with the increase in scientific knowledge, which is why I don't really agree with it. But I can see that people read poems and put their own interpretation on them, and as such can find comfort there themselves.


I too read that poem again and was working on my interpretation of it, which is remarkably similar to Dotsie's. I was going to post it tomorrow, but I'll do it now.

"To me the poem is depressingly negative and seems to have been written by a religious fanatic who sees Darwinism as rocking the foundations of his deeply-held, unscientific beliefs.

The poet appears to be under the impression that if everybody believed without question in God, your faith will coccoon you in a fluffy warm blanket and protect you from bad things.

Daring to question this belief will only lead you, and the world, into a living hell - a world devoid of joy, love, light, peace etc."
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Postby poohbcarrot » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:14 pm

For my O levels I studied poetry about war and love. For some reason the following poem really moved me and I still remember it to this day. I don't know who wrote it and maybe I've got some of the words wrong, but;

In Memoriam

The flowers left thick in the forest this eastertide,
Bring into mind the men, now far from home,
Who with their loved ones, should have picked them,
And will never do again.
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