Anyone read Martin's Dance with Dragons yet?

[Willem]

I like and love all three authors, but apart from them all writing fantasy I wouldn't put them in the same genre (well, it's all fantasy, but very different kinds of fantasy).

For me, Tolkien's indeed Classic Epic fantasy. Huge battles, but in the end the parts I love are the Smeagol, Sam and Frodo stuff, slowly walking towards Mordor with an ever growing dread. I've read the books multiple times, the last time was probably about three years ago. I must admit skipping the poetry

Now, Pratchett (for me) started as funny/parody fantasy, and moved into socially satirical fantasy. All the stuff of holding up a mirror to modern life - that's Pratchett. He's the writer who has probably influenced me most in my day-to-day beliefs and thinking. I think I could've done a lot worse

Game of Thrones is political fantasy. Magic's talked about but not really relevant. Martin has the power to surprise - nothing's safe or sacred in his world. I love book one and three. Really, I love them. Never had a book shocked me as much as book one, and it was even more shocking in book three. Two's pretty good, four was - in my opinion - boring. He's got so a lot of characters and viewpoints and book four only had about two that interested me. They might be more interesting retrospectively when the serie's done though. Book five, I've only read once. I quite liked it and am planning a reread later this month when all the furniture's been set up.

Anyway, my point if any: we're comparing Sabertooth tigers, platypuses and chimpansees. They're all mammals but apart from that, not that big an overlap

[Jan Van Quirm]

And yes that's another factor with genre writing, with Sci-Fi being another comparative minefield with yardsticks like Huxley or Wells or Asimov just for starters, possibly using reptiles as the analogy ref 'cos Asimov at least was a real chameleon

This is why mainstream classic literature can't cut it for those who truly love their fantasy - it's all 'different' as to venue or aesthetics, but it's all based on the same old same old because it's 'real'.

Tolkien's got a very dark seam running through his oeuvre too, but he's such a bugger for not putting any meaningful flesh on even quite important facets of his world unless it's to do with linguistics and naming - I can fully appreciate why people think he's boring or just not entertaining. Any writer who can tell a tale about a warrior protecting a couple of dozen people on the side of mountain duelling a Balrog to their mutual destruction after escaping a mountain citadel said Balrog has just helped to completely destroy in 4 and a bit lines isn't doing their job properly. Having said that Tolkien had at least a half dozen versions of the concluding events of the Fall of Gondolin that could have gone into the final cut of The Silmarillion and you're getting closer to his OCD approach to writing his legendarium up.

I used to skip the poetry too. And Tom Bombadil. And Lothlorien as well. I was 10 and that's my excuse for not recognising the quality in favour of more exciting or intriguing parts. I also found GoT a shockingly gritty in places and liked it for that reason (which is why I got annoyed with the White Walkers apparently being abandoned the first time I didn't make it past the 1st third of the book) so having now enjoyed the TV version so much I'll happily get around to reading the rest eventually. Next year I hope

[raisindot]

Hey, something's just occurred to me. I read in plenty of places that it was Joffrey who ordered that Bran Stark be killed whilst overhearing the king mention that Bran should be put out of his misery, and while I read A Game of Thrones at a fair trot, I don't think I would have missed such a revelation. Is that in A Game of Thrones, or is it in a later book in the series?

SPOILERS MAYBE?

It's in a later book, but I'm not sure whether I fully understood who actually made the order. My understanding (and it may be wrong) is that the one responsible for arranging the hit is not necessarily an obvious suspect.

[Quatermass]

Currently reading A Clash of Kings, more or less in tandem with The Children of Hurin by the Tolkiens.

[Antiq]

Just acquired last installment of the Thrones series

[Quatermass]

Just acquired last installment of the Thrones series

You mean latest. There are two more books to come.

(Sorry, my pedanticism is automatic...)

[Antiq]

Just acquired last installment of the Thrones series

You mean latest. There are two more books to come.

(Sorry, my pedanticism is automatic...)

Eh, the last current installment

[Quatermass]

BUMP.

I've finished A Clash of Kings recently (I know, I started it long ago, but I went onto other books for a while), and am halfway through A Storm of Swords. A Clash of Kings was disappointing compared to the original (still an excellent book), but A Storm of Swords seems to have clawed its way back a little.

[pip]

I haven't been dissapointed with any of them yet. I finished the fourth part two weeks ago and i'll probably start a Dance with Dragons next week .

[raisindot]

I haven't been dissapointed with any of them yet. I finished the fourth part two weeks ago and i'll probably start a Dance with Dragons next week .

Interesting. I thought the series hit its peak with the third book, and the fourth book was a huge disappointment and true slog, mainly because most it of focused on additional characters and their back stories. The last book continued some of the excesses of the fourth book, but since it got back to some of the core characters it's better, but certainly not up to the level of the first three.

[pip]

I haven't been dissapointed with any of them yet. I finished the fourth part two weeks ago and i'll probably start a Dance with Dragons next week .

Interesting. I thought the series hit its peak with the third book, and the fourth book was a huge disappointment and true slog, mainly because most it of focused on additional characters and their back stories. The last book continued some of the excesses of the fourth book, but since it got back to some of the core characters it's better, but certainly not up to the level of the first three.

I'd agree that three was a great book and with the fourth your kinda thinking where the hell is such and such but I think the fact it was a lot shorter than three meant it didn't drag too much. I did miss all the goings on at the wall though

[Quatermass]

I'm going to be reading A Feast for Crows before long...

[pip]

Started A Dance With Dragons This morning finally

[Quatermass]

BUMP.

Just finished A Feast for Crows. I'm not sure why it is considered so poorly. It's plodding, to be sure, and it doesn't quite move forward enough, but Martin writes well enough, even at his worst, and it is surely satisfying to see Cersei fall (albeit not enough for my liking).

[raisindot]

BUMP.

Just finished A Feast for Crows. I'm not sure why it is considered so poorly. It's plodding, to be sure, and it doesn't quite move forward enough, but Martin writes well enough, even at his worst, and it is surely satisfying to see Cersei fall (albeit not enough for my liking).

I think after the masterpiece of book 3, this one, with all of its growing list of side characters and its omission of plotlines for the more interesting characters, was the worst of the series. Martin admitted that this one and book 5 were originally one book but it would be took long, so he essentially split it in two, with FFC focusing on half of the characters (the less interesting ones as far as I'm concerned), and book 5 focusing on the other ones, and bringing both ends sort of together.

On a side note: HBO has announced that future DVD/Blue Ray versions of GOT will remove the shot of the 'piked' George W. Bush head from one of the episodes. So get your 'original' Bush-head versions now--they may increase in value over time, although there are probably several million copies out there....