Reaper Man

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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:36 am

Re Bees - also in Lord & Ladies where Granny considers it her greatest feat of Borrowing when she becomes the Swarm... :lol:
"Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not.” George Bernard Shaw
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Postby Who's Wee Dug » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:28 am

Yes but there are Ok in the land of XXXX. :)
He willnae tak' a drink! I think he's deid! , on the other hand though A Midgie in yir hand is worth twa up yir kilt.
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Postby Trish » Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:37 pm

swreader wrote: But when we get to ToT, the Auditors become personalities because they have individuality.

And that, of course, is why the incarnated auditors not killed already will disappear when the bodies have to sleep.

This is a subject Pratchett comes back to over and over ... a combination of the sense of separateness, of individuality plus the concomitant development of emotions.


Hmm, maybe.

Sleep is the "little death." Why, just ask John Donne!
I read it to understand that the incarnated Auditors were afraid to sleep because they could not know if they would wake with their 'new' senses intact.


On another level, the Auditors are bloodless, impersonal accountants. Not only the bean-counters of the universe, but the embodiment of IRS and Inland Revenue agents.

Any (accidental) brush an (A)auditor may have with humanity /person is "not in keeping w/ the job" and compassion gets wiped clean by a good night's sleep.
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Postby Trish » Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:43 pm

swreader wrote:I find the Mall thing a slight weakeness--it's not quite as well developed as it might be.


Swarm mentality.

I took my daughter to the mall last night.
When I picked her up 3 hours later, I didn't know who the hell she was.
Talked, walked, spoke like someone else. Better said is "everyone else."
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Postby poohbcarrot » Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:47 pm

I love reading swreader's posts because they use words and phrases I simply don't know the meaning of. :lol:

The three stages of love was particularly brilliant. 8) I thought love was indefineable, not pigeon-holed into one of three categories - none of which I'd ever heard before.

What does concomitant mean? :?
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Postby poohbcarrot » Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:49 pm

swreader wrote:I find the Mall thing a slight weakeness--it's not quite as well developed as it might be.


I agree! I thought it ruined the whole book.
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Postby Tonyblack » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:57 pm

poohbcarrot wrote:
What does concomitant mean? :?
In this context - an event or situation that happens at the same time as or in connection with another. :)
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Postby swreader » Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:31 am

The Auditors in RM are not allowed to have personality. In fact, the new Death, who is to replace DEATH is either an auditor or a combination of auditors. In the final confrontation between the two one can see this--when the New Death (note no caps--speaks in Italics) says
We will enjoy this.
ENJOY?
The new Death advanced. Bill Door backed away.
Yes. The taking of one Death is the same as achieving the end of a billion lesser lives.
LESSER LIVES? THIS IS NOT A GAME!
...
Later, on the Mountain Top before DEATH meets Azrael, three of the Auditors appear and threaten to inform Azarel. DEATH grabs one by the robe and pulling its empty hood level with his eye sockets says DO YOU KNOW WHY THE PRISONER IN THE TOWER WATCHES THE FLIGHT OF BIRDS?
It said, "Take your hands off me ...oops..." (emphasis added)
Blue flame flared for a moment.

The Auditors, in their natural state are rational, thinking beings, capable of speaking and of acting -- but only together. To claim individuality is to die.
Later, Pratchett more fully explores this part of his concept of the Universe and the way it functions in ToT. But, Trish, what we learn is that the Auditors are only vulnerable when they, by becoming incarnate, begin to have human emotions. Because those not incarnate have been following what happens on Discworld, some of that individuality and emotion has leaked into them. That is what allows the 5 Horsemen to battle them successfully.
And at the end of the battle to restore Time to it's rightful place, Unity and Susan are talking, and Susan is worried about all the auditors on Discworld that they haven't disposed of.

Unity talks about the effect of sleep, which she said she barely survived. The sun is setting. And with the end of the day, the body requires sleep.And Unity says,
"Can you imagine what it is like? For an intellect a billion years old, in a body which is an ape on the back of a rat that grew out of a lizard? Can you imagine what comes out of the dark places, uncontrolled?"
She goes on to say they will die in their dreams.

And even though it is possible for un-incarnate auditors to slip up--those who have bodies, have become "human" and thus have individuality and personality, who have that sense of the dark space behind the eyes--are doomed. It appears to me that Unity has managed to survive only by becoming insane.

I liked your analogy, Trish, to the ultimate IRS or Inland Revenue. I've always thought of them as the Ultimate Librarians who want every book in the Universe in its place on the shelves, the doors locked--and no person (each one writes his book) can change anything.
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Postby swreader » Sat Aug 01, 2009 6:32 am

poohbcarrot wrote:I love reading swreader's posts because they use words and phrases I simply don't know the meaning of. :lol:

The three stages of love was particularly brilliant. 8) I thought love was indefineable, not pigeon-holed into one of three categories - none of which I'd ever heard before.

What does concomitant mean? :?


I'll take that as a compliment, sir. Thank you. :D
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Postby poohbcarrot » Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:44 pm

I also like reading swreader's posts because the longer they are, the more mistakes there are! :lol:
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Postby Trish » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:24 pm

poohbcarrot wrote: The three stages of love was particularly brilliant. 8) I thought love was indefineable, not pigeon-holed into one of three categories - none of which I'd ever heard before.


Socrates and his posse come up wit' it. Were they smart or what.
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Postby poohbcarrot » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:32 pm

Ooh them Greeks! It's must be the climate and all those stuffed tomatoes. :lol:
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Postby chris.ph » Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:44 pm

and the light speed tortoises pooh :lol:
measuring intelligence by exam results is like measuring digestion by turd length
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Postby Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit » Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:26 pm

poohbcarrot wrote:I also like reading swreader's posts because the longer they are, the more mistakes there are! :lol:


Muahahahaha! :twisted:
Aha! So, Bob's yer uncle... very clever.
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Postby swreader » Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:57 pm

poohbcarrot wrote:I also like reading swreader's posts because the longer they are, the more mistakes there are! :lol:


I still have hopes of educating you! :idea: What a thought!
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