Going Postal Discussion *Spoilers*

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Postby raisindot » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:15 pm

Jan Van Quirm wrote:I just love to hate Moist :lol:


I just love to hate "Pyramids."

:P

J-I-B
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Postby Tristan » Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:31 pm

I finished GP a few months ago. :D I know this is a fan-favorite and such, but to be honest... I was disappointed.

Let me be clear: I loved the character of Moist. He is fresh, entertaining, can keep the story afloat and has enough of depth to make it interesting. But his awesomeness can get the book only so far.

The plot was weak and incoherent. The whole post-office/letters idea was largely abandoned after the fire (such an obvious plot device... ergh). I didn't find the post-office engaging at all: Terry just might have skipped all that crap and focused on Moist being the fantastic bastard he is instead... wouldve been a great deal more fun (at least).

I also failed to get the book's central idea. What did Terry want to say with this one? The good ol' post office vs the big bad companies, who take advantage of the poor honest citizens? Isn't that one dimensional? Where's the conflict of ideas, usually present in Pratchett's books? And I'm not talking about Moist here: his development as a character was far more interesting than anything else here.

Don't get me wrong: GP is a great read. Very enjoyable, fantastic new character and the last 100 pages were a blast. It has a lot going on and most of it works. But for Pratchett standarts... lacking.

Give me the witches or Death! MUCH better. :D
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Postby Tonyblack » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:03 pm

Lord, luv a duck! Good to see you again, Tistan! :D
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Postby SpyViolette » Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:22 am

I really loved GP. Moist's character developed very well, and I think Vetinari was right to pick him for the job. The Post Office was being...tended by two people who had been doing things the same way for a long time; Moist, however, was completely objective since he didn't really care that much at first, which worked to his advantage. It also helped that he understood Gilt's mind. They were similar, definitely, but in the end Gilt and Moist made very different choices.

Moist did eventually see that his actions had affected others' lives negatively, especially after meeting Adora Belle. I like that he walks that line between giving in to his criminal instincts and what he knows is the good thing to do; I'm just a sucker for some slightly cliched inner conflict. Terry provides excellent commentary on corporations and technology here as well. Maybe Moist is only the lesser of two evils. I can certainly see why someone might not like him, but I couldn't help it after seeing the story through such an interesting prism.
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Postby raisindot » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:43 am

Welcome, SpyViolette.

I agree with you on Going Postal. I think Moist is a polarizing character; you either love him or you hate him. He may be as much of a conniving bastard as Reacher Gilt, but, in the end, he plays his shell game for the right reasons and as a form of atonement. That Adora Belle is his conscious is certainly a huge part of it; he needs her to see how the effect of his 'former life' on the futures of others.
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Postby ChristianBecker » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:26 am

I liked GP very much. I found it hilariously funny and not at all one dimensional.

I think Terry wanted to make several points:
a) If you're not careful in the business world, you end up with having sold your business before you even noticed it (bright people with not so much grasp of financial matters falling for Gilt, ending up without the trunk)
b) Free market is an illusion once a quasi monopole (in this case the grand trunk) has been established, since there is enough money there to buy up any competitor before they can become a real competitor and because you can also covertly do things to get rid of competition in other ways.
c) Terry criticizes unsustainable capitalism aimed at short term profit: Since it has been taken over, the Grand Trunk has become less reliable and there's actually no maintenance happening, but patching if something breaks due to lack of maintenance. Because of b) the Trunk doesn't have to fear losing customers, because they've become so dependent on a fast flux of information. This leads to the Trunk demanding high fees for little service and and not caring if the network fails from time to time. In the end the Grand Trunk Company isn't planning on keeping the trunk forever, but to make as much money on it as possible, run it down, sell it to someone else when it becomes unprofitable and perhaps buy it back when it seems it will become profitable again.
d) Certain vital parts of infrastructure shouldn't be privatized because of b) and c), even if they seem to be unprofitable: There's a great quote in GP that is, in my opinion, spot on. I'm quoting from memory, so it might not be verbatim: "Perhaps something like the post office couldn't be run at a profit. Perhaps the profit turned up distributed over the whole populace." Now, a state owned company can afford to run at a loss, because it is financed by the state, which in turn earns more when the people are wealthier. A corporation, however, can not run at a loss for a longer time because shareholders would soon sell all their stocks bankrupting the corporation. That is why, for example, in Germany energy companies sued the state when our politicians decided that all nuclear power plants have to be shut down until 2025 (or sometime near that) - these nuclear power plants are money printing machines and shutting them down costs the companies a lot of money. So the CEO has to do all he can to avoid these losses lest he be held responsible for the losses.
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Re: Going Postal Discussion *Spoilers*

Postby Maura:-D » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:41 pm

I don't like the new set-up... I'm confuddled! :D
I just worked out the other one...

Anyway I love this book.
And Moist.
And Arabella.

Just thought I'd get that out there... :lol:
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Re:

Postby Maura:-D » Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:43 pm

Tonyblack wrote:Lord, luv a duck!


I like :D
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Re: Going Postal Discussion *Spoilers*

Postby Sister Jennifer » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:05 pm

Is this where I can say I watched Part 1 of GP on the telly last night?
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Re: Going Postal Discussion *Spoilers*

Postby Tonyblack » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:12 pm

Sister Jennifer wrote:Is this where I can say I watched Part 1 of GP on the telly last night?

Sure!

What did you think of it? ;)
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Re: Going Postal Discussion *Spoilers*

Postby Sister Jennifer » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:12 am

Not too shabby eh? Definitely the best of the DW movies. I'm not good at critiquing but here a couple of things I've thought so far.

Ankh Morpork looks good, in particular the Post Office, how Amazing are all the letters!? I read somewhere they're the real thing with DW addresses included. The book to movie translation has been well written.

There's always a thousand opinions on what actor would fit a role but I think the casting is well done.

Reacher is more a caricature than the nasty bastard he should be, I don't get why they've done that. Maybe less on the eyeliner and wig and a bit more on the menace.

Mr Gryll looked good but what the hell is he saying?? I'm really glad the Golems aren't CG.

Do The Smoking Gnu make an appearance? Don't answer that!

Pt 2 is showing Christmas Eve , can't wait.
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Re: Going Postal Discussion *Spoilers*

Postby AuntyVague » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:34 am

We've got it on disk so I have seen it a couple of times before, but I'm enjoying watching it on telly. It's also nice to see the ABC airing it now - it might be the 'off' season, but still in prime viewing time, so hopefully a few more ABC watchers will pick up the books as a result and we'll have a few more converts out there :)

Tend to agree about My Gryll. Took a few goes to work out what he was saying :think: But I do love the overall look and feel of the film and casting. Going Postal was always a story I enjoyed and I do like the way both Stanley and Groat have been brought to life. Particularly Stanley. I'm unfamiliar with the actor, but he just captures him so well.

Won't let any cats out of proverbials for next weeks episode :D
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Re: Going Postal Discussion *Spoilers*

Postby Quatermass » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:28 am

Actually, I thought that the adaptation was a bit anaemic, made a mockery of the timeline, and forced Moist's character development too much compared to the more sedate (and realistic?) pace of the book. Can't fault most of the casting, though. Richard Coyle is an excellent Moist, Claire Foy is a great Adore Belle Dearheart (though I think that her being hardened was a lifelong process, and that what happened to her father was the coup de grace, but it's jarring, albeit pleasantly, after seeing Foy play Amy Dorrit in Little Dorrit), and Charles Dance IS Lord Vetinari. And Steve Pemberton as Drumknott...now there's some good casting.

But they should have kept the stylish piratical nature of Gilt. David Suchet is a good actor in the role, but the adaptation did him wrong. In fact, I would think that Julian Glover would make a better version of the book Gilt (if he weren't so old). And I expected Mr Pump to be a more boisterous type than this sort of sad type. :roll:
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Re: Going Postal Discussion *Spoilers*

Postby cabbagehead » Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:35 am

Some more ideas in Going Postal: The comparison between Moist and Gilt also gets me thinking of Vetinari. He is a Machiavellian manipulator and a tyrant. But he benefits the city - and significantly more than himself. Moist is a good choice of a character to examine Vetinari because he understands the manipulation as it is happening. Reacher Gilt as Patrician would be taking the city back to the days of Winder and Snapcase. Moist knows the difference.

The other significant point: Mr Pump's calculation of the people Moist killed, despite never acting violently. How many people have we brought closer to their deaths by our daily choices? By lack of consideration of others' needs, by not thinking through the consequences of our actions. It isn't nice thinking of ourselves as killers, but we may all be ones.
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Re: Going Postal Discussion *Spoilers*

Postby Quatermass » Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:48 am

Just watched the second part of Going Postal's adaptation. I enjoyed both Hogfather and The Colour of Magic, despite the changes (and the changes to the latter helped improve matters, IMO), but whoever they got to do Going Postal...well, they f***ed up the characters and some parts of the story. Badly. The only good changes was to have Adora being one of the Smoking GNU, and her brother being a spy for Vetinari (as they removed the plot about the rival clacks). But what was that bulls**t about Adora trying to make the golems go on strike? And they didn't portray Angua very well. Got the actress right but the writing wrong.

The casting, however, was extremely good for the most part. Richard Coyle, Claire Foy, and Charles Dance were spot on. And Steve Pemberton and David Suchet, even if the latter's role had been changed too much.
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