After Snuff.....

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Re: Re:

Postby LilMaibe » Sun Nov 27, 2011 1:39 am

high eight wrote:
cabbagehead wrote:
If not he then who?


The canonical timeline is impossible. Whichever way you look at it there are contradictions, and signs that Pratchett changed his mind about some things between books. He himself said that Discworld sometimes has alternate pasts. So just decide which alternative you like.


And it doesn't matter anyway - Patrick O'Brian, in his series of historical seagoing adventures, kept 1812 going for about three years to fit in all the stories he wanted to tell and very few people noticed (and even fewer cared).


You are aware that that is not the same as what we've been talking about?
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby cabbagehead » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:06 am

That means, the time we have now in the stories is the time as it always should have been.

Look at the stories since nightwatch. Show me one inconsistency within those.


Yes, but we don't really know what the characters in the story remember as 'the true timeline as it has always been'. I mean, we know they remember John Keel as someone curiously similar to middle-aged Vimes rather than Keel as Vimes once knew him, but do they remember Sergeant Keppel? (Maybe they do, maybe he only returned to the watch house at Treacle Mine Road from his retirement after May 25th.) OK, do they remember Vetinari graduating from the Assassins' Guild in 1964 as Sacharissa remembers in The Truth or sometime before 1958 (based on FOC taking place a year before the 300 year celebration of the revolution of 1688) or not graduating at all (if he ran off when Snapcase started asking too many questions, would have been in character for him)?
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby LilMaibe » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:11 am

Who says the monks didn't fix things and people's memories adjusted to it after a while?
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Re: Re:

Postby high eight » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:21 am

LilMaibe wrote:
high eight wrote:
cabbagehead wrote:
The canonical timeline is impossible. Whichever way you look at it there are contradictions, and signs that Pratchett changed his mind about some things between books. He himself said that Discworld sometimes has alternate pasts. So just decide which alternative you like.


(quotes omitted because of stupid forum rules)

You are aware that that is not the same as what we've been talking about?


Erm....... Terry had different books going on at the same time with the same characters in different timelines. So did Patick O'Brian. I'd say it is exactly the same thing. (Except that O'Brian didn't have the fall-back of magic and just had to get on with it and hope his readers didn't mind too much).
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby cabbagehead » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:36 am

Who says the monks didn't fix things and people's memories adjusted to it after a while?


Still doesn't answer the question what it is that the people remember. It makes sense to them, but we don't know which version it is, except probably *not* the one we have for the books before Thief of Time/Nightwatch. And there isn't enough information in later books to determine which way it went.

Heck, if the Vimes in the 'new' timeline is the one who grew from the young person we see in Nightwatch, then when the events of FOC roll by wouldn't he have contacted Dr Lawn rather than Doughnut Jimmy to treat Vetinari for his poisoning?
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby LilMaibe » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:38 am

That (various stories set in the same year) is correct.
What isn't is that that was the thing concerned. That was whether or not you can actually built a timeline that makes sense (you can, fans have proven) and if at Thief of Time said timeline was altered and if we do see the effects in the books since nightwatch.
The books since then seem to be in continuity with themself, but not with those pre ToT.

@Cabbagehead: Who says he didn't.
Let me explain.
Imagine the timeline got altered as mentioned above.
And with it some events, we migt not yet know that they have been altered.
Has Jimmy shown up or gotten a mention since Nightwatch?
Not that I remember.
Yes, that is not a prove for the theory, but we are just speculating.
Last edited by LilMaibe on Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby cabbagehead » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:41 am

To high eight: It matters if a reader wants to imagine what happened between books or during the many years between the early books or even the earlier history of Ankh Morpork, Lancre, Genua, Klatch or wherever.
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby high eight » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:44 am

cabbagehead wrote:To high eight: It matters if a reader wants to imagine what happened between books or during the many years between the early books or even the earlier history of Ankh Morpork, Lancre, Genua, Klatch or wherever.


Oh, fanfiction. :roll:


'Nuff said.
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby LilMaibe » Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:41 am

high eight wrote:
cabbagehead wrote:To high eight: It matters if a reader wants to imagine what happened between books or during the many years between the early books or even the earlier history of Ankh Morpork, Lancre, Genua, Klatch or wherever.


Oh, fanfiction. :roll:


'Nuff said.


:doh: Please, just stop it. :cry: What is it with you and regarding fanfiction/fanon as inferior as a whole?
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby cabbagehead » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:04 am

high eight, what's the point of reading a story if you are going to limit yourself to what you are shown and told? The characters obviously have complete lives of which we only get glimpses. They came from someplace, they are going somewhere.
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby high eight » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:03 am

LilMaibe wrote:
high eight wrote:
cabbagehead wrote:To high eight: It matters if a reader wants to imagine what happened between books or during the many years between the early books or even the earlier history of Ankh Morpork, Lancre, Genua, Klatch or wherever.


Oh, fanfiction. :roll:


'Nuff said.


:doh: Please, just stop it. :cry: What is it with you and regarding fanfiction/fanon as inferior as a whole?


I don't like it. I have said I don't like it and you know I don't like it. :violin:
Last edited by high eight on Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby high eight » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:04 am

cabbagehead wrote:high eight, what's the point of reading a story if you are going to limit yourself to what you are shown and told? The characters obviously have complete lives of which we only get glimpses. They came from someplace, they are going somewhere.


Maybe - but they are the dull bits of their lives. We get the interesting bits (thanks to the author) why do we need the rest? :?:
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby LilMaibe » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:58 am

That's your opinion, okay.
But for fark's sake: STOP, just STOP treading people who enjoy/write it the way you do.
Why did you sign up on a board where there'll be talk and therefore interpretations of the books anyway, if you hate it when people actually think about what they read?
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby high eight » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:17 am

LilMaibe wrote:That's your opinion, okay.
But for fark's sake: STOP, just STOP treading people who enjoy/write it the way you do.


I'll stop being me the day I die.

LilMaibe wrote:Why did you sign up on a board where there'll be talk and therefore interpretations of the books anyway, if you hate it when people actually think about what they read?


Why did you? You're the one who, after reams of explanation and discussion from me dismissed it all with:

I farkin' hate the book for being full of beginner's mistakes, errors and general stupidity.

You're the one who came on here pontificating about books you haven't even read yet.... :naughty:
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby LilMaibe » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:26 am

I did sign up because I enjoyed and enjoy the books (except for UA) and was looking for a place to share thoughts and views, without getting flamed, bashed, etc for having a negative opinion on something if I can provide reasons.
But apparently this isn't the place I was looking for.
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