This woman hates the Watch

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Postby author3 » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:12 pm

Reaper Man would probably been ''Weird Skeleton Man''
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Postby Cool Middle Name » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:15 pm

Fair enough if she found them boring. So did I with every watchbook after Men At Arms as it became less humorous and more focused on Vimes being a detector. I don't like how these books, which usually show so many viewpoints, centred on one character who is having all the adventures. So I prefer the Witches books where every character is doing something interesting and constructive all the time.

But to dislike it so much that she didn't want to read the rest, even though she liked the Witches ones so much? What a narrow-minded view.
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Postby MongoGutman » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:48 pm

Would you say that as DW progresses TP is leaning more towards plot driven stories and less towards character?
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Postby LilMaibe » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:06 pm

It always depends, I'd say.
Unless the talks is about what formally were the Watch books and are now Vimes books.
(I think I stopped liking Vimes when he was the 'trigger' for the pseudo-happy-end in MR )
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Postby Cool Middle Name » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:43 pm

MongoGutman wrote:Would you say that as DW progresses TP is leaning more towards plot driven stories and less towards character?

I'd say that is part of it, and that now the only character being expressed is Vimes (and Vetinari). Don't like Vimes because he hasn't got a very funny personality. I understand that he is supposed to represent the 'working class' but sometimes his books may as well be in first person.
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Postby Cool Middle Name » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:44 pm

LilMaibe wrote:It always depends, I'd say.
Unless the talks is about what formally were the Watch books and are now Vimes books.
(I think I stopped liking Vimes when he was the 'trigger' for the pseudo-happy-end in MR )

This.

Not read that book yet, but a character solving somethinsg completely by himself is not that interesting on character development.
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Postby LilMaibe » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:06 am

To a minor defense he didn't solve the prob alone in MR, but he was the trigger. A role that didn't NEEDED to be filled by Vimes. In fact the whole book could have done WITHOUT anyone from AM being NEAR the countries at war.
(YMMV)

as for the books with him AFTER MR, though....
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Postby Tonyblack » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:23 am

A happy ending in MR? I don't think so. They still had a huge way to go and their own problems to solve that had very little to do with either Ankh Morpork or Vimes. :?
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Postby LilMaibe » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:30 am

as said above, pseudo-happy-ending. And wasn't it the reveal that vimes isn't what the folks above said he's like that triggered important stuff?
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Postby Sister Jennifer » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:05 am

^No. What triggered the important stuff was Polly going to find her brother. Vimes's 'reputation' was just tactics. The book was about perceived indentity & subsequent prejudices. Cause and effect, that kind of thing. Monstrous Regiment is a firm favourite of mine.

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Postby Tonyblack » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:09 am

I love Monstrous Regiment too! I wasn't at all sure the first time I read it, but it's definitely one of my favourites now. :D
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Postby LilMaibe » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:17 am

Sister Jennifer wrote:^No. What triggered the important stuff was Polly going to find her brother. Vimes's 'reputation' was just tactics. The book was about perceived indentity & subsequent prejudices. Cause and effect, that kind of thing. Monstrous Regiment is a firm favourite of mine.

Re - The woman in the shop. My step-mother refers Discworld as 'those childrens books you read'. I mean, really!


would the events that lead to the , well, end as it is in the book have been triggered if vimes would not have been there?
I don't mean the events in general were bad, just that it HAD to be vimes and not some new character with no connection to AM.
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Postby cabbagehead » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:43 am

So did I with every watchbook after Men At Arms as it became less humorous and more focused on Vimes being a detector.


The detective aspect is an oversimplification of Vimes. Yes, he usually finds things out, though there may be bits he only learns of in the aftermath. But he is also about law vs society, common law vs personal morality, what are the limits of applying one's personal morality to society at large, building a multi-cultural society, and other things.
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Re: This woman hates the Watch

Postby cabbagehead » Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:58 pm

I don't mean the events in general were bad, just that it HAD to be vimes and not some new character with no connection to AM.


While it didn't absolutely *have* to be Vimes, the reasons it was Vimes, are, IMO, the following:

1) Pratchett really likes Vimes.
2) IIRC it was Lady Margolotta in TFE who described Vimes as paradoxically both anti-establishment and the representative of establishment. That we already know him as such makes him pre-suited for his role in MR.
3) The involvement of Ankh Morpork shows how the recent technological developments (the Clacks) are Diskifying (equivalent of globalizing) local conflicts. The situation between Borogravia and its neighbors impacts the major powers and they will try to enforce peace because war is bad for their business. Which is a big part of Vetinari's thinking, and Vimes is his terrier.
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Re:

Postby deldaisy » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:06 pm

author3 wrote:i really wanted to have a very stern talk with her, but then she left the bookshop :(


Good grief man! Where is your ingenuity?

You should have followed her! All the way home.... :twisted: and written down her address so we could all send her letters detailing her lack of intelligence and our own personal views of the DW books..... :twisted: ... day after day.... week after week.... bawahaaaaaaaaa!!!!
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