Disturbing Trend in UA and Snuff: **Major Spoilers**

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Postby high eight » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:48 pm

Carter is NOT Pepe's reason to assault andy. Pepe's reason for what he did is he 'knows' that 'people like andy' will not learn their lesson.



Yep and I personally don't have a problem with that - but then I have been on the receiving end of people like Andy.

Violence is the only language that Andy understands, so Pepe gives him some. Tough. Live by the sword, etc.
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Postby LilMaibe » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:36 am

high eight wrote:
Carter is NOT Pepe's reason to assault andy. Pepe's reason for what he did is he 'knows' that 'people like andy' will not learn their lesson.



Yep and I personally don't have a problem with that - but then I have been on the receiving end of people like Andy.

Violence is the only language that Andy understands, so Pepe gives him some. Tough. Live by the sword, etc.


And I say it again:
Thing is, pepe doesn't know at that point whether or not andy (who is actually ought to have his leg broken from toe to knee (continuity, where are thou?) did get scared out of his skin by what the orc did to him and learned his lesson.
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Postby DaveC » Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:26 am

How come you keep saying 'the orc' instead of Nutt? I thought it was an easy name to remember... + less letters. :)
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Postby LilMaibe » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:58 am

Dislike him too much to say his name.
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Postby raisindot » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:40 pm

LilMaibe wrote:Dislike him too much to say his name.


Speciesist! :)
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Postby Tonyblack » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:43 pm

LilMaibe wrote:Dislike him too much to say his name.
I feel the same about the six-foot dwarf. :P
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Postby windscion » Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:50 pm

You could always call him 'Headbanger' ;-)
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Postby LilMaibe » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:00 pm

raisindot wrote:
LilMaibe wrote:Dislike him too much to say his name.


Speciesist! :)


So? 8)
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Postby high eight » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:42 pm

LilMaibe wrote:
high eight wrote:
Carter is NOT Pepe's reason to assault andy. Pepe's reason for what he did is he 'knows' that 'people like andy' will not learn their lesson.



Yep and I personally don't have a problem with that - but then I have been on the receiving end of people like Andy.

Violence is the only language that Andy understands, so Pepe gives him some. Tough. Live by the sword, etc.


And I say it again:
Thing is, pepe doesn't know at that point whether or not andy (who is actually ought to have his leg broken from toe to knee (continuity, where are thou?) did get scared out of his skin by what the orc did to him and learned his lesson.


Yes he does - because he knows what an evil [expletive deleted] Andy Shank is. He has grown up amongst people like that. He knows that the only (and I mean only) language Shank understands is violence. The only thing that will make him even begin to learn his lesson is a good kicking - or in this case, slashing.
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Postby LilMaibe » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:44 pm

Honestly now:

The whole scene, whatever one may think about it, is actually useless.

the book could have done without it.
All it achieved to me is making me wonder what landsldie of violence pepe brought loose with that (I dare say Andy will take out his anger on the gay-community, if AM actually has one, if he can't get back at pepe directly)

Or at least andy is OUGHT to do just that.

But as pathetic a villain he is...
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Postby high eight » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:48 pm

LilMaibe wrote:Honestly now:

The whole scene, whatever one may think about it, is actually useless.

the book could have done without it.


And let Andy Shank not only get away with it but continue in his violent ways?:roll:

LilMaibe wrote:All it achieved to me is making me wonder what landsldie of violence pepe brought loose with that (I dare say Andy will take out his anger on the gay-community, if AM actually has one, if he can't get back at pepe directly)


Then you missed the point entirely. Shank will be TOO SCARED to take out anything on anybody. Word might get back to Pepe and what will he cut off next time?

LilMaibe wrote:Or at least andy is OUGHT to do just that.

But as pathetic a villain he is...


I'm beginning to think that you actually like him...... :shock:
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Postby LilMaibe » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:13 pm

Like? No.
Wanted to reach into the book and tell him at the end of the game that she shall frigging forget about 'magic' and that the wizards outright cheated? Yep.

As for the scene, if it'd been the next day and we'd learn that Pepe got word that Andy did not learn his lesson from what happened after the game, the actions ould be ok.

But like that? Look at the text. Andy is furious at Pepe and the only thing stopping him from chasing after his attacker is that lemon.
He is not scared, he's likely even more furious now.
And if he can't find pepe he'll take it out at people who either are close to pepe or who are just there...(latter is even more likely)

You say you've been on the receiving end?
Never been the target cause that f'cktard got in trouble with his parents for damaging the car?
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Postby Doughnut Jimmy » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:57 pm

A few comments:
Terry is not writing about a perfect world where law and justice run smoothly together but a world as imperfect as ours therefore the law is not necessarily the highest good and sometimes "good" people need to bend it.

As readers we know that Andy hasn't changed so many of us approve of Pepe's treatment of him, its viscerally satisfying in a way fiction allows us to explore.

If you see Terry's later books as fables (as in there is point to them about humanity or how the world works) then it is important for our sense of justice within the book that Stratford dies because he viciously murdered the goblin girl, the law couldn't have executed him for that even if he'd made it to court.
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Postby Tonyblack » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:18 pm

I agree DJ! It's always good to see the bad guys get their comeuppance. :wink:
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Postby raisindot » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:19 pm

Doughnut Jimmy wrote:
If you see Terry's later books as fables (as in there is point to them about humanity or how the world works) then it is important for our sense of justice within the book that Stratford dies because he viciously murdered the goblin girl, the law couldn't have executed him for that even if he'd made it to court.


The law doesn't execute people. People execute people. If Stratford were tried under AM laws, he would be guilty of killing a sentient species. It would have been easy to prove the goblins' sentience--after all, Sybil made sure the entire world was aware of it.

So, Stratford would have been brought to justice, since Vetinari, for all his faults, is one who is extremely sensitive to species-related intolerance (and someone who would have seen the value of earning the trust of a population of obedient, nonviolent, highly skilled artisans who would be willing to work for cheap). Had he not brought Stratford for justice, he would have been villified by everyone who had seen the goblin girl play the harp in AM. He, of all people, knows where the political winds blow.

And even if Stratford could not be brought to justice in a trial, Vetinari would have found a way to make sure Stratford chose to choose the door to nowhere.
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