Alternate Universe Carrot and Vimes (Speculation)

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Postby LilMaibe » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:44 pm

Ziriath wrote:I have nothing against good fanfiction- but I don't want to wade through a river of slash and Mary Sue-ness, searching for unlucky good pieces sunken somewhere there. Sometimes I feel disgusted just from reading the annotations.

But a story of alternate Jingo seems very interesting to me.


You'd be surprised how few sues there actually are. But, sadly, those that are there are HOR-RIB-BLE.

Mhnn... Maybe someone should open a fanfiction recommendation thread (the recommendations on tvtropes aren't that much of good picks IMHO)

(Out of curiousity: what annotations/summaries?)
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Postby meerkat » Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:48 pm

Footnotes? :?:
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Postby stripy_tie » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:43 pm

I'm not surprised he ditched the idea, it seems very much at odds with the way he's made the discworld series as a whole.

I mean first of all it seems very important to him that each book be able to stand on it's own two feet, having to stretch the story over two books would have made that impossible and he just doesn't seem like a sequel / trilogy format kind of writer (except for truckers, diggers and wings of course but that's an independent series).

The discworld series has a theme of gradual change running throughout with each book adding to it but not changing it enough so that it's unrecognizable to anyone who skips any book in the series.

A plot as large as a civil war and it's repercussions would destroy that completely and all the other books would become either post war or pre-war and you'd have to read that book to then understand what was going on.
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Postby Ziriath » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:36 pm

Uh, sorry, that's a language difference. In Czech, 'anotace' means short description or summary. I do not remember what exact summary of fanfic offended me- but it was some Vimes/Vetinari graphic slash on fanfiction.net. It was my very first encounter with slash and I was...quite shocked, that someone could think of something like that and even wrote it.
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Postby cabbagehead » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:46 am

I once read a fanfic that was the alternate time-trouser-leg of Jingo. After Sam died Sybil retrieved the dis-organizer. After some time Sybil organized the re-establishment of the Watch in Sam's memory (IIRC Susan played a significant role there) and she kept following the lives of the Sam and Sybil that we know through the dis-organizer. When the dis-organizer told of Young Sam's birth she put it away in Sam's grave. It was rather well done.
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Postby LilMaibe » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:00 am

Ziriath wrote:Uh, sorry, that's a language difference. In Czech, 'anotace' means short description or summary. I do not remember what exact summary of fanfic offended me- but it was some Vimes/Vetinari graphic slash on fanfiction.net. It was my very first encounter with slash and I was...quite shocked, that someone could think of something like that and even wrote it.


I think I even know which you mean Dx And there's a point that annoys me about most fanfiction when it comes to discworld:
They are rarely telling a story but are just there for pseudo-romance between two characters that just don't fit together.
Personally I'm always p**sed off when I read a summary like (and this one's actually common)

-What if Vimes would have not returned to his time in Nightwatch? Contains V/V. Don't like don't read-

I'm always tempted to write:
-Don't like writing non-slash? don't write- in the comments
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Postby cabbagehead » Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:38 am

Personally I'm always p**sed off when I read a summary like (and this one's actually common)

-What if Vimes would have not returned to his time in Nightwatch? Contains V/V. Don't like don't read-

I'm always tempted to write:
-Don't like writing non-slash? don't write- in the comments


Er? How does this make sense? People have different takes on writing fanfic. The person bothered to give a summary so those who are interested in this flavor can find the story and those who don't can avoid it instead of wasting their time on something they won't like. What would be the point of being nasty to this author? To each their own, let a thousand flowers bloom, etc.

There is plenty of intelligently-done slash as well as intelligently done non-canon het pairings. If you think fanfic should only serve to fill the gaps in canon without changing any canon fact you can certainly stick to stories that satisfy this definition, but others like to play with the what-ifs. A serious fanfic writer can do this while keeping the characters true to themselves.
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Postby LilMaibe » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:13 pm

Naw, it's not only there to fill gaps while staying 100% canonical (hard to do, trust me). But most stories like the one mentioned are all the same -they meet and have sex in the most routined and boring kind of writing.
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:51 pm

:? No need to be dismissive meeps - cabbagehead has a valid point. Just because you don't like slash/het non canon rom fanfic doesn't mean that it's all rubbish - far from it.

The whole point of fanfic is for fans who have the urge to write for themselves to use canon for their own takes and exploration. Really the main reason for doing this is solely for their own entertainment and satisfaction and not to impress other fans with their brilliance. I don't personally write 'pure' Discworld fanfic because I'd never do it as well as Terry and like you I don't feel the need to send Vetinari off on sexual marathons with Rosie Palm or Mrs. Cake or whatever and certainly not pair Carrot off with Vimes (ick! :shock: ) :roll: I very rarely read Discworld fanfic by anyone else for the same reason - even if it's canonical, so I've never read more a few lines of yours or Mongo's or mspanners efforts that's been posted on here - I'm simply not interested in your take on Discworld 'cos it's never going to be as good as the original. That doesn't mean it's crap just that I don't care for it.

I do write fanfic for classic canon and 'spin-off' with het and some slash in the Tolkien world and have had good feedback on it and I've tried with mixed success in roleplaying Granny Weatherwax and random werewolves in a fusion Discworld/Middle Earth universe. My most prolific ME fan fic writings are based on canon with a writing partner where we are a classic Woodelf couple who getting married next year - that's huge fun doing elfie wedding plans :P My point is that I don't write it for other people at all - it's for my own amusement and if others want to join in (if it's RP based) or just read out of curiosity then that's fine but I don't really take too much notice of feedback because I primarily write it for me not other people.

Fanfic should never be treated as 'valid' literature in other words and as such critique is largely pointless especially when it's taking itself too seriously? It's a hobby thing at best surely? :wink:
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Postby LilMaibe » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:05 pm

Jan Van Quirm wrote::? No need to be dismissive meeps - cabbagehead has a valid point. Just because you don't like slash/het non canon rom fanfic doesn't mean that it's all rubbish - far from it.

When did I claim that ? :?
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:19 pm

Every time you post about fanfic just about - by inference anyway. It's good to have opinions but stating them negatively with force and frequency gets a tad tedious, even if you qualify your objections. Do that often enough and you're just recycling the same arguments all the time :roll:

Like cabbagehead's saying if you know you won't like it don't bother with it at all 'cos it's a foregone conclusion - your critique automatically has no value whatsoever and any negative remarks become gratuitous :|
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Postby LilMaibe » Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:05 pm

Oh dear... It came across like that? :(
That's not what I meant ._.
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:05 pm

Well that's good to know meeps - :)

Sometimes what you say comes across pretty stridently and it's hard to tell if you're being ironic or just plain serious and mostly negative? It's always good to have feedback, even the negative variety if it's presented constructively - I certainly prefer it to gushy 'I lurve it!' commentary with nothing tangible to say WHY? :wink: A good meaty comment on why it doesn't work for you is often far more valuable to a writer so long as it doesn't get too diggy and personal. With fanfiction being so subjective to start with, uncompromising criticism can often wound more than inform? I've gone over the top with some people myself, even regular writing partners by over-egging the teasing - so now I either don't read it so I can't comment or I treat it as a fun thing and don't get too heavy on the really terrible bits :lol:

You should see some of the comments I get from my lovely mild-mannered editor - the telling-off she gave me the other day just for saying 'Much, much later...' was something to behold :P

Ed wrote:Oh help! It wasn’t by any chance a dark and stormy night? Just leave those three words out, is my suggestion, unless you are deeply enamoured of them.
:evil: Bloody cow! But she was right damn her! :roll: :lol:
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Postby LilMaibe » Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:22 pm

Communication when one doesn't see the other's face is hard :( Still need to learn it.

(And, if I may add a question: Would your editor agree that 'It was(going to be) a good day' or 'life was good' is the 'it was a dark and stormy night' when it comes to endings?)
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:37 pm

:lol: I'll give you the context and the copy and then you can judge for yourself. This is standard (and het) literary fiction with a dark comic edge and just after a rather physical romantic reunion that happens off-page... :P

I wrote:Much, much later (t)he scent of burning marula wood wafted in from the garden as Luey was finishing off his second shower. Sophie was about to call him when he came back into the bedroom, rubbing a towel over his head energetically and so didn't at first take in that she'd changed.

All I did was take off the 1st 3 words off and it still works (except it's improved for that :oops: ) :wink: A good editor is (nearly) worth their weight in gold if you want to avoid being too cliched. :P

Actually that's an interesting point and it's a minefield treading a line between keeping it 'real' and firmly in the vernacular as opposed to getting too mannered or enthusiastically 'right on' - I also used the expression "she was the real deal" to describe my heroine in the eyes of her newly beloved and all ed could see was this chap so I had to take it out even though it's a valid if innocuous comment and not an uncommon expression outside of the antique pseuds world :lol:

In the end it's a question of how much you're 'enamoured' of the fit of the apparently stinky expression. My rule of thumb in the editing relationship is I'll stick with my first thoughts when she fails to make me feel embarassed about what I've put down. If life was good and that feels right then what's wrong with saying so? :)
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