Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

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Postby Tonyblack » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:28 pm

LilMaibe wrote:I ask you one question
A question to ask when writing Discworld taught me:

Was it absolutely NECESSARY to have this whol shit-thing in the story? Could it NOT have been replaced by anything else?
And was it ABSOLUTELY UNAVOIDABLE to have the goblins in there instead of having that spot filled by humans from a country we before have NOT heard anything about?
Meeps - read the book!

You decide.

As you can see from this thread, some people loved the book, some people didn't. I have no idea which catagory you'll fall into. You're the only one who can decide on that.

I thought the thing with the goblins worked very well and couldn't have been done with any other DW race we know of. But that's me - I am not you.
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Postby One Man Bucket » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:30 pm

Here be MAJOR SPOILERS













To make Goblins seems less worthy and more akin to vermin as the public perceived them, I'd say the shit-thing certainly helped make their [the public] position seem more justified and made the actual depth of their culture more shocking once it was discovered.

As for Young Sam he was just being a child interested in the sort of things children are interested in and the poo lady's books make sense if you consider her mother was raised by Goblins and so would share the more distasteful aspects of their culture
"Give us only everything, and we will be content." ~ Jerome K Jerome
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Postby LilMaibe » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:35 pm

I will NOT read it. Frankly? Reading spoilers, including excerpts managed to make me f'cking cry.
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Postby One Man Bucket » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:47 pm

That's your prerogative.

Anybody else left stumped about exactly what was up with Stinky? It seems implied that he's some sort of deity or guardian spirit. I believe he might actually be Unguee itself or something
"Give us only everything, and we will be content." ~ Jerome K Jerome
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Postby DaveC » Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:47 pm

LilMaibe wrote:I ask you one question
A question to ask when writing Discworld taught me:

Was it absolutely NECESSARY to have this whol shit-thing in the story?

YES IT WAS BECAUSE WANT TO SEE YOUNG SAM GROWING UP AND THAT HE IS GROWING UP AND BECOMING A NORMAL, CURIOUS BOY AND NOT A 'NOB'

Could it NOT have been replaced by anything else?

SUCH AS?

And was it ABSOLUTELY UNAVOIDABLE to have the goblins in there instead of having that spot filled by humans from a country we before have NOT heard anything about?

I CAN AGREE THAT IT WOULD'VE BEEN NICE TO HAVE SPENT MORE TIME IN HOWONDALAND AND GOT TO KNOW IT MORE. BUT IT HAD TO BE ANOTHER RACE BECAUSE WE ALREADY KNOW THAT RACISM IS PRETTY RARE BETWEEN HUMANS ON THE DISC



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Postby Tonyblack » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:02 pm

One Man Bucket wrote:That's your prerogative.

Anybody else left stumped about exactly what was up with Stinky? It seems implied that he's some sort of deity or guardian spirit. I believe he might actually be Unguee itself or something
I don't know. It's going to take another read to pick up some of the stuff I missed. :)
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Postby LilMaibe » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:08 pm

Apologies for the drama I have commited.
:(
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Postby One Man Bucket » Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:12 pm

@DaveC

I would have liked to have seen more of Howondaland but it's supposed to be the dark (as in mysterious) continent so I doubt we'll ever get reams of information about it like we have for other locales. It's nice to have seen another character from there and this one being alive*. Kind of weak of Terrance repeating the All nickname joke and not thinking of something equally clever but it's tolerable and minor at that.

* the first was One Man Throwing a Bucket of Water over Two Dogs for whom I am named
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Postby raisindot » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:48 pm

LilMaibe wrote:I will NOT read it. Frankly? Reading spoilers, including excerpts managed to make me f'cking cry.


LilMaibe, for someone who hasn't read the book and continues to say you won't read it, you're certainly making a lot of comments in this topic, nearly all of them criticism.

Nothing wrong with criticism itself--there are so many things I dislike about Snuff--but at least most of us have withheld from making comments until we actually read it. Some will love it, some will hate it. But at least our reactions are on actual experience.

Do yourself a favor--beg borrow or steal the book and then come back with your own honestly derived at opinions. You'll have a lot more credibility than you are right now, making comments solely based on reviews and our comments here. :D
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:50 pm

I haven't read Snuff (but I definitely will when it's in paperback) and I certainly don't mind spoilers but I haven't really read everything on here or links to all the other reviews unless I felt I needed to - to understand some of the points being made in this and the other Snuff threads... :P

So here's a totally objective view because the only reason I'm not going to read Snuff yet is because I'm not so eaten up with excitement that I'm shelling out for the hardback. 8) I don't know whether anyone's mentioned this so far (because I've not read all the comments religiously) but has anyone brought up India and the Dalits (Untouchables) - and why they were regarded as untouchables?

From what you're discussing now it sounds very much like the caste system - nothing to do with race so much as all to do with what the untouchables actually DID - which was mostly to do with 'unclean' industries in that they worked in abbatoirs, as butchers and tanners (making leather or fabric which involves both blood and urine) and also in the shit or night-soil removal business as it more delicately called during the British Raj in much the same way as Harry King is King of the Golden River... :roll:

'Nuff said - in a hot country being around waste products and dead animals is not a way to make friends and influence people even though it's a dirty job but someone's got to do it etc :wink: Along with the slavery issue this is simply another instance of people mistreating people who're 'different' - in this case smellier and very poor and so regarded as the dregs of society. Bottom feeders? The lowest of the low? Dole scum? The homeless?

With Discworld being relatively free of actual racism is it really that silly to find out that a species has to be bottom of the heap? Discworld is Roundworld after all - it just has different labels.

Meeps - poo is a very British obsession. We don't expect Europeans to 'get' how funny it is when it's just a natural function - that's the whole point really. :wink: Everybody does it and yet we all have these silly hangups over it (in the UK anyway) and that's WHY it's funny because kids don't always get it either. Plus it doesn't get written about too much outside of fad diet or 'healthy' lifestyle books :lol: No holds barred expositions therefore have outrageous and hilarious connotations for us as a socially 'taboo' topic in general :wink:
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Postby meerkat » Fri Oct 21, 2011 8:56 am

Tonyblack wrote:
One Man Bucket wrote:That's your prerogative.

Anybody else left stumped about exactly what was up with Stinky? It seems implied that he's some sort of deity or guardian spirit. I believe he might actually be Unguee itself or something

I don't know. It's going to take another read to pick up some of the stuff I missed. :)


Me too! Which is why I am! :lol:
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Postby Tonyblack » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:21 am

An excellent review in the Guardian. :D
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Postby LilMaibe » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:46 am

raisin: But I have read enough, excerpst, pages in the bookstore, quotes online etc to know I won't like, left alone enjoy it. I'd rather spent that money on the new Reaper Man audio book.
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Postby Ogg » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:02 pm

At the least I find it shocking that anyone here (a TP appreciation forum of all things) can claim not to want to read Snuff let alone harp on about the fact. Then again I am witnessing veritable dissections of what is surely a good thing, a new TP book (!). I can't get my head around anyone taking the time to post here who can't be arsed to buy the book (which is inexpensive even in hardback) preferring to wait for a library copy or even the paperback, for shame.
I've been reading TP for almost twenty years now, fifty books, thirty nine of these DW and I for one (considering the great man's ailment) appreciate each and every new offering...and so should you. After all, how much longer is this going to last?
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Postby LilMaibe » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:06 pm

Wait, are you saying I'm a bad person for not liking it? :cry:
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