Snuff *Warning Spoilers*

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Postby Inkmusic » Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:26 pm

worshipdubya wrote:Is this the first Discworld Novel that doesn't feature the character Death at all?

Yes, I noticed that too! And I thought that it was just me, and I skipped the page he was on, or something. It really detracted from the book, I thought. If he'd had Death in it, it would be perfect.
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Postby swreader » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:59 am

LilMaibe wrote:
Quatermass wrote:
LilMaibe wrote:Before I say anything: (As i am still waiting till my library gets it) Did I see it correctly that again the premise is not a big coincidence but again orchestrated by vetinari?

EDIT: Scratch that, read tvtropes.... came to the conclusion to NOT read snuff. Sorry, folks, but tvtropes made UA sound interessting...but THIS?! from what I read there and from samples I can as well raid the dvd-rental-store and have a seltzerberger-marathon.


Why? :?


Scatalogical 'humour', holier than thou races, holier than thou communities (read and heard a few things by now, book acts as if NO BLEEPING city/country can do anything without AM showing them how to) holier than though characters, etc.

Sorry, but...well, the scene Rob read in sydney (i think it was) actually had me, as I couldn't help but imagining the part after 'and vimes died' as a monty python style animation, which is awesome. But then the other samples, bits and pieces etc came along and lost me again :(
It makes me plain sad (and angry to a degree) to see such things happen to and in the one series that TAUGHT me how to avoid just those things when writing :(


I wouldn't want to comment on a book based on what was said in tvtropes said. As far as I can tell it's reviews aresimply the opinions of various people who may or may not know anything about writing. However, I would have read anything on the site, but when I searched the site for Snuff it said there were no reviews. So I don't know what you're trying to refer to in the part of your post marked "Edit"

Now when Publisher's Weekly gives Snuff it's highest commendation with a "starred review" I would pay attention to that. One really needs to read a Pratchett book several times before commenting, in my opinion, and it makes me quite :evil: to have such an unjustified (I could use stronger words, but I won't) pan from someone who wants to be a writer and who should have better sense and taste.

I will also add that I've only read about half of the book so far, but I am finding it both stylistically and satirically the equal of I Shall Wear Midnight which I consider the best book Pratchett had written.
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Postby Quatermass » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:42 am

swreader wrote:
LilMaibe wrote:
Quatermass wrote:
LilMaibe wrote:Before I say anything: (As i am still waiting till my library gets it) Did I see it correctly that again the premise is not a big coincidence but again orchestrated by vetinari?

EDIT: Scratch that, read tvtropes.... came to the conclusion to NOT read snuff. Sorry, folks, but tvtropes made UA sound interessting...but THIS?! from what I read there and from samples I can as well raid the dvd-rental-store and have a seltzerberger-marathon.


Why? :?


Scatalogical 'humour', holier than thou races, holier than thou communities (read and heard a few things by now, book acts as if NO BLEEPING city/country can do anything without AM showing them how to) holier than though characters, etc.

Sorry, but...well, the scene Rob read in sydney (i think it was) actually had me, as I couldn't help but imagining the part after 'and vimes died' as a monty python style animation, which is awesome. But then the other samples, bits and pieces etc came along and lost me again :(
It makes me plain sad (and angry to a degree) to see such things happen to and in the one series that TAUGHT me how to avoid just those things when writing :(


I wouldn't want to comment on a book based on what was said in tvtropes said. As far as I can tell it's reviews aresimply the opinions of various people who may or may not know anything about writing. However, I would have read anything on the site, but when I searched the site for Snuff it said there were no reviews. So I don't know what you're trying to refer to in the part of your post marked "Edit"

Now when Publisher's Weekly gives Snuff it's highest commendation with a "starred review" I would pay attention to that. One really needs to read a Pratchett book several times before commenting, in my opinion, and it makes me quite :evil: to have such an unjustified (I could use stronger words, but I won't) pan from someone who wants to be a writer and who should have better sense and taste.

I will also add that I've only read about half of the book so far, but I am finding it both stylistically and satirically the equal of I Shall Wear Midnight which I consider the best book Pratchett had written.


Hey, lay off LilMaibe! :evil: It's my fault she looked at TV Tropes. That's an unfair reaction, swreader!

Personally, looking at TV Tropes only makes me want to read Snuff more.
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Postby LilMaibe » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:12 am

And as said, TVTropes made UA sound good to me back in the day.
On a further note:
Newspapers nowadays don't DARE to say anything negative about an established author. (or at least those reviews are very, very, very rare) So newspaper reviews mean nothing to me.

Frankly, if things continue like that I will write a review bout what I didn't like about UA, as from what I saw Snuff has the same 'problems'
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Postby The Mad Collector » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:59 am

I really enjoyed Snuff however I will refrain from commenting further until I have waited a week and read it again so that the scope of the book is firmly in my mind.

However to LilMaibe I suggest reading the book not what others have written about it before making stupid statements about what it is about and what is in it.
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Postby LilMaibe » Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:22 am

Mad, that ain't fair. I'd have no way of disposing the book should I buy it. (No, in my area renting it is not possible, neither is giving it back or a second hand store. And I don't throw books in the trash. I didn't even manage to throw that one horrendous book about norse mythology in the can, where it belongs and up to this day it bugs me more than any other book I ever purchased and disliked)

EDIT: Have had a chance to read a bit more and get some new bits and pieces from the l-space wiki, I am reassured that i will NOT purchase, left alone read it.
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Last edited by LilMaibe on Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tonyblack » Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:18 pm

I was interested in the idea of it being dangerous to eat nothing but rabbit, as it rang a distinct 'bell' with me. I think I read or maybe saw something about fur trappers in North America who got into serious trouble from eating nothing but rabbit.

It's known as Rabbit Starvation. Reading Discworld is an education in itself. :D
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Postby Perestroika » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:21 am

there...was....no...Death...

:(

or at least if there was I fell asleep during that bit.

I need to reread it on the weekend, but after being a bit disappointed with Unseen Academicals and I Shall Wear Midnight, I was quite pleasantly surprised by Snuff. I thought it would be good, of course, but I didn't think it would make it's way up into my favourites.

I did love Feet of Clay, and I found that some of the ideas and so on expressed in this book were similar, however it was much much more disturbing to me at the same time. I have never been so disturbed by any of his books before. Many times I found myself having a damn good cry about how horrible the goblins had it, and thinking that we have actually treated real people like that and being disgusted with myself for being a part of the race that ever involved itself in such treatment.
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Postby Tonyblack » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:57 am

I've got to agree! I found it, emotionally, quite difficult to read in parts. The idea of treating intelligent beings as disposable commodities because they don't have any legal rights is not a new idea of course, but it is an evil one.

I almost cheered when Wee Mad Arthur prodded buttock at the slave plantation. :)
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Postby Ogg » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:45 am

I've been so busy that I missed the release date and for the first time since Reaper Man at that, for shame. I usually spot one or two copies when on delivery (I'm a rural postie) but not this time around. Anyway, I downloaded an illegal 'epub' version on sunday to view via my computer and lost an entire evening reading over half. I found a £5 (!) copy in Tesco yesterday and finished it last night. My only complaint ever is that the books can easily be read in one sitting.
Imho Snuff is as good as ISWMidnight although I agree with the review detailing the lack of tension because Sam Vimes always triumphs. I so enjoyed the rapport between Willikins and Vimes and the blurring of roles inherent between master and servant did much to bring joy to my heart. I dare say my second read that has already begun on a welcome day off will offer more.
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Postby Tonyblack » Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:13 am

Good to see you again, Ogg. :)

I'm not sure I agree with the complaint that we know Vimes is going to triumph in the end. Isn't that the same for most series of books? We know Hercule Poirot is going to solve the crime, that that didn't stop Agatha Christie from writing loads of stories starring him (about 80 I think).

The interesting bit is getting there. Any reader of police procedural and mystery books will 'know' their hero will triumph in the end and Snuff is a police procedural. It's not (in my opinion) justified to complain when a book stays faithful to its genre.
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Postby Ogg » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:43 pm

I can assure you I am not complaining, Vimes is my all time favourite character :)
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:41 pm

Bugger! :roll: I thought I'd lost the post altogether and went and posted it again (below) - never mind :lol:
Last edited by Jan Van Quirm on Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:55 pm

Tonyblack wrote:I've got to agree! I found it, emotionally, quite difficult to read in parts. The idea of treating intelligent beings as disposable commodities because they don't have any legal rights is not a new idea of course, but it is an evil one.

I almost cheered when Wee Mad Arthur prodded buttock at the slave plantation. :)


Just an observation purely on angst about slavery in general (as I won't be reading Snuff itself any time soon)... :? Slavery's been around about as long as human beings have been sentient and certainly since the time of the most ancient of 'civilised' cultures as in Mesopotamian and Egyptian so it was ingrained in human culture for at least as long as physical violence and mental abuse has been. It probably began in Africa and the Eastern Mediterranean countries and the Middle East and spread outwards as people migrated with the last Ice Age. It's also a fallacy that sub-Saharan Africa did not have a very insidious and abusive slave trade culture prior to the European colonisation - they had it at least from the times of the Pharoahs and certainly before and during the expansion of Islam and the indigenous cultures such as the ones in Benin and Zimbabwe themselves took slaves from conquered states as they became dominant.

Arguably, in some respects, slavery was necessary for advances in science as well as socially and in most cultures it was not non-stop whips and chains, if only on the basis of treating them as 'commodities' that had value. In the less cruel societies slavery was institutional rather than oppressive and in some cases roughly equivalent to 'bond' service where the period of enslavement was of limited duration or operated in a slightly different way as with feudalism where slavery was effectively ensconced on a bed and board and 'protection from marauders' basis. :roll:

I know it's morally right to denigrate it, but fact of the matter is that every race has inflicted it on another at some stage in their history to some degree - it's all part and parcel with war and domination and 'herd hierarchy'. So, even though it also right for certain sectors to issue public apologies, please don't feel you bear a racial badge of shame because you had ancestors who may have been involved in human trafficking any more than you should be if you had forebears who were themselves slaves - it's not your fault today. History moves on and attitudes hopefully change for the better but if you go back far enough into antiquity you'll find antecedents who've been involved in slavery on one or both sides of the fence... :evil:
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Postby deldaisy » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:12 pm

Quatermass wrote:Already, there are spoilers on TV Tropes.

I intend to read them anyway. I don't mind being spoiled, as I like to read anyway what happens. Even knowing what happens, the journey itself is more interesting than the ending. :)


Totally agree! Haven't read it yet and intend to read every damn spoiler I can get my hands on. :lol:

NO DEATH???? :(
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