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Postby Tonyblack » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:42 am

Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit wrote:She is desparately trying to come into her own in this story. She is peeved at the other two for coming along, even tho it was Desiderata's true desire.

She is trying to find herself, through martial arts, jewelry, and being as darn good a witch as she can. It comes across to her patients in frightening ways. She tries to teach those who are just wanting a cure, not a lesson. She works very hard and resents the others as not actually taking witching seriously.

It is always hard to be the third in the group. In other books she asks Agnes/Perdita how she likes always being the one to get the tea, start the fire or whether her scones are disregarded too.

I adored her righteous indignation at Nanny's gambling away everything including her broom. Her innocent choice to keep a small scrap of the lovely dress is very telling of her personality.


Some good points there Tina. :) I like Magrat a lot and despite what Granny says, I think she's a strong witch. Maybe Granny does it on purpose to make her stronger. It takes a lot of guts to stand up to Granny and Magrat does just that. The fact that she doesn't wear a witch's hat or black against Granny's obvious disapproval is an indication of her strength.

Did anyone notice that she actually calls Nanny Ogg by her first name for probably the one and only time?
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Postby Om(nomnom) » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:22 am

I just read through this thread and I'd like to add that there also is big mediterranean and european influence in Genua. (At least concerning the architecture, according to my memory. Which would be in Line with that "Disneyland feeling."
In fact Genua is the German name for Genova, so the city was named Gennua in the German translation instead.
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Postby Cool Middle Name » Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:29 am

This book was fantastic, my favourite Discworld book.
I loved the scene in Not-Spain where Granny gave the bull the Horsemans Word, and Nanny found this hilarious, and Magrat just up and grabbed the rosary from the prize Bull (That was pure gold.)

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Postby deldaisy » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:12 pm

Rereading this book at the moment. Near the end. Loving it. Purposefully read Lords and Ladies BEFORE this book (didn't do that the first time but did this time because of another thread on the forum that asked COULD you read L&L before this one) but thats a moot point as I didn't the first time... though it HAS been years since I read both books and its almost like a first reading.

Love that this brings so many personal core values of all the three witches out in the open .... shows just how far Granny will bend her personal rules moreso than in other books.... but then .... thats a bit what it IS like when you travel with family or friends huh? They do things you never thought they would at home.

Yeah the references to fairy tales and "Disney" (as opposed to the Grimm fairytales) are cheesey..... but it is the observations of the witches I am enjoying more than anything.
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Postby raisindot » Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:00 pm

Just finished re-reading (well "re-listening" anyway). This is definitely one of those books that gets better on a re-reading. I remember thinking it particularly strange, even for the witches series, the first time I read it (after reading all the others), but now it definitely seem to fit right into the series. Much like "Feet of Clay" does for the Guards series, this one takes the more comical and plot-driven elements of a previous novel and expands upon them to establish the future directions for the witches, particularly Granny Weatherwax.

If there is anything in the book that doesn't work, I'd say it's the Greebo. It's the equivalent of the laborious Nobby-Colon exchanges in the Watch books--B plot material that's supposed to be funny and break up the main narrative a bit but end up dragging the page down.

It also seems to be a 'transitional' book away from the more one-time plot-and-laugh driven narratives of past book. Here, PTerry is far more concerned with character development than he was in most previous books. And he pays more attention to setting; the Genua he creates here is the most 'realistic' setting so far in a DW book, and the themes that he weaves into the story are perhaps the most complex he has developed to this point. The growth in his literary powers we see here will comes into full bloom with his next book, Small Gods.
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Postby DaveC » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:03 pm

raisindot wrote:Just finished re-reading (well "re-listening" anyway). This is definitely one of those books that gets better on a re-reading. I remember thinking it particularly strange, even for the witches series, the first time I read it (after reading all the others), but now it definitely seem to fit right into the series. Much like "Feet of Clay" does for the Guards series, this one takes the more comical and plot-driven elements of a previous novel and expands upon them to establish the future directions for the witches, particularly Granny Weatherwax.

If there is anything in the book that doesn't work, I'd say it's the Greebo. It's the equivalent of the laborious Nobby-Colon exchanges in the Watch books--B plot material that's supposed to be funny and break up the main narrative a bit but end up dragging the page down.

It also seems to be a 'transitional' book away from the more one-time plot-and-laugh driven narratives of past book. Here, PTerry is far more concerned with character development than he was in most previous books. And he pays more attention to setting; the Genua he creates here is the most 'realistic' setting so far in a DW book, and the themes that he weaves into the story are perhaps the most complex he has developed to this point. The growth in his literary powers we see here will comes into full bloom with his next book, Small Gods.


I still wish we could get another Genua-set story. :idea:
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Postby raisindot » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:15 pm

DaveC wrote:
raisindot wrote:
I still wish we could get another Genua-set story. :idea:


Yeah. Except for AM, Lancre and The Chalk, PTerry tends to give cities/nations a one-book treatment. I suppose one has to assume that Ella is running Genua wisely, since the city is rarely mentioned in any future books other than as a 'final destination' for a clacks message or mail coach.
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Postby poohcarrot » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:29 pm

Didn't Henry Slug "come" from Genua in Maskerade? :?
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Postby Tonyblack » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:32 pm

poohcarrot wrote:Didn't Henry Slug "come" from Genua in Maskerade? :?
He was supposed to be from Brindisi, if I remember correctly.
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Postby poohcarrot » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:33 pm

Oh! Where's Brindisi? :?
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Postby DaveC » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:38 pm

Wiki says

Brindisi

From Discworld & Pratchett Wiki

Brindisi is the Discworld equivalent of Italy on Roundworld. Evaree-ona speaka lika dis iffa dey comea from dere! And if your name is Henry Slugg and you want to sing opera you're liable to get laughed at, but if you are named Senor Enrico Basilica - from Brindisi, remember - then you can be a Disc-wide star! The Flying Pastrami Brothers are another example. Their real names were Sidney and Frank Cartwright. Who wants to see acrobats called that? No-one. So they called themselves Marco and Falco Pastrami, and got a job on Monty Bladder's Three-Ring Circus.

The country is near-tropical, rimward and turnwise of Genua and includes a peninsula into the Gulf of Brindisi. Brindisi is three thousand miles across the continent from Ankh-Morpork, but its language is obviously derived from Latatian, so it was likely an outpost of the Morporkian Empire.

Brindisian immigrants contribute much to the Artistic and Food Service Industries in Ankh-Morpork. The Brindisian language is not widely spoken there, but it is common in restaurants and at the opera.

Annotation
There might be two reasons for Pratchett's choice of Brindisi as the name for the Italian counterpart of Discworld.

First, there really is a Roundworld city called Brindisi. It is located in the Eastern part of the Italian "heel" peninsula, a fact that matches Pratchett's description. In addition, Brindisi itself stands on a small peninsula whose shape resembles a deer head (i.e.: 'Brentesion' in Greek).
Second, "brindisi" is the Italian term for "toast", commonly preceded by the sentence "let's have a...". Choosing "Brindisi" as a name for an Italian-like country, Pratchett wisely emphasizes Italian taste for wine - a drink that comes with the typical Brindisian food Enrico Basilica hates.
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Postby poohcarrot » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:46 pm

Ta! :D
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Postby raisindot » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:39 pm

DaveC wrote:
Wiki says
In addition, Brindisi itself stands on a small peninsula whose shape resembles a deer head (i.e.: 'Brentesion' in Greek).


How would the Greeks, standing on the ground, know that is resembled a deer head unless they.........LOOKED DOWN UPON IT FROM THE AIR. Proving that ancient aliens--probably the same ones who helped the Egyptians build the pyramids--took ancient Greek cartographers with them in their ships! :lol:
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Postby DaveC » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:29 pm

raisindot wrote:
DaveC wrote:
Wiki says
In addition, Brindisi itself stands on a small peninsula whose shape resembles a deer head (i.e.: 'Brentesion' in Greek).


How would the Greeks, standing on the ground, know that is resembled a deer head unless they.........LOOKED DOWN UPON IT FROM THE AIR. Proving that ancient aliens--probably the same ones who helped the Egyptians build the pyramids--took ancient Greek cartographers with them in their ships! :lol:


:lol:
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Postby hattie » Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:51 pm

One of the best parts in the book was trying to understand Nanny speaking "foreign" :-) loved it!!!! "mine hare" god I broke down laughing... silver plate...hilarious!!
There's some I didn't understand though...I'll have to go and check.
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