The Caroc Cards - The Temple of the Lady @ DWCon 2012

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Postby poohcarrot » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:35 pm

J-I*b's just soooo predictable. :roll:
"Disliking Carrot would be like kicking a puppy."
"You kicked a puppy," Lobsang said accusingly.
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:13 pm

Bumps for meer and NickPretzel - I'd forgotten I'd done another thread for this :oops:

I'd like to keep this separate though so the playing deck discussion won't get crossed with the major arcana and the fortune-telling aspects (it's complicated enough as it is without trying to square themes for parallel projects :wink: )

Please refer to the first post for the designations and subsequent observations that have come in so far.

TONY/JASON... is it possible to have this and the CMO thread made sticky while we're working on this still please? *bats eyelashes* Image
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Postby Tonyblack » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:17 pm

Get's out paste pot. :wink:
"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
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Postby Tonyblack » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:18 pm

What's the CMO thread? :?:
"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
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Postby Dotsie » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:44 pm

What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:48 pm

:lol: What she said :wink:
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Postby Tonyblack » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:50 pm

Thanks! I was thinking: Cut My Own what? :lol:
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Postby meerkat » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:21 pm

Jan, I'll have a squint through the list tomorrow (I'll have the time) and give my final thoughts then.

still open for ideas.
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:56 pm

NP meer - plenty of time for this :D
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More suggestions

Postby NickPretzel » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:43 am

Jan Van Quirm wrote:NP meer - plenty of time for this :D

BTW In German Sodium is called Natrium, so you can see where the Na comes in. There's quite a few elements that don't have obvious abbreviations - Au for gold; Ag for silver; Pb for lead; Sn for tin; Hg for mercury, all from the Latin, K for Potassium, but I'm straying off the point.
I'll add my comments to your originals:
Jan Van Quirm wrote:
In the real Caroc there are 30 cards altogether but Terry's only got around to actually naming a few of them and most can equate (roughly in some cases) to the 22 Roundworld cards so this is what we've come up with - the Discworld name is shown in brackets where appropriate :P

Later suggestions/options in red until meerkat sanctions 8)

1 ~ The Magician
Mankind surrounded by nature. Endowed with enough power to manage your affairs.
Probably one of the UU Wizards but one who fits the description (Ponder? Ridcully?)
Have you considered Albert? After all, he was supposed to have been the most powerful wizard of all and founder of UU to boot. Does this have to be a male character, coz if not, then I'd also consider Granny Weatherwax.

2 ~ The High Priestess
Sanctuary, law, woman, Mother.
Mrs. Cosmopolite in her position as Muse/Sibyl to Lu-Tze and the History Monks. Could also work Anoia into this too as she's sort of a domestic goddess
Nanny Ogg has many of these qualities.
I agree, although I would also consider Sibyl to have at least the same three as Nanny.

3 ~ The Empress
Evolutionary power of fertilised nature.
Lady Margolotta (on the basis of international political clout)Magrat, since she's pretty darned earth mother fertile. And she's queen.


4 ~ The Emperor (The Ruler)
The Energy in man to give his creations a short reality.
Because of that qualification - Terry The Man (Vetinari is still in here just wait a bit :twisted: )
Wm. De Worde?
I'd vote for Vetinari.

5 ~ The High Priest
Spiritual Power which conveys principles.
Hughnon Ridcully (HP of Blind Io)? OR Brutha?
Lu-Tze or the Abbot.

6 ~ The Lovers
Physical love. Urge to carry out a task with the advantages you take from it.
Carrot and Angua? LONAs?
Tricky. I don't think Carrot & Angua quite fit - Carrot just isn't romantic. I can only think of minor characters for this: Cohen & Bethany (was that her name? In CoM); Wen & Time; Susan & Jeremy/Lobsang. Overall LONAs fit the description best.

7 ~ The Chariot
Material Power. Dominion over passions. Actions of a human being.
The Luggage on the basis (and basics) of carrying material trappings and in particular laundry action... 8)
I like the luggage for this. If not, then maybe Binky.

8 ~ Justice
Happy or painful consequences.
Lord Vetinari - just right! :D
Sam Vimes. He is justice personified. Even Vetinari must bow to him when it concerns The Law. They are both servants of the Law and Sam certainly upholds it without fear or favour. However as Patrician Vetinari can make or repeal laws (even if he's also subject to them like when he's removed from office in Jingo). Sam can't do that, so I say he's still 2nd choice. :wink:
I'd go for Vimes here.


9 ~ The Hermit
Search of Truth. Search for patience. Prudence.
Lu-tze


10 ~ The Wheel of Fortune
Actions in the present affected by the past.
Guild of Gamblers - maybe tie in Fate & the Lady? Moist?
This is Moist all over. He's all about actions in the present being affected by his past. (included on the basis that I loathe Moist so can't be a judge :wink: )
I'd go for the Lady, or how about CMOT. Admittedly, it's usually bad fortune in his case, but his actions are affected by the past.

11 ~ Strength (The Importance of Washing the Hands)
Fruits of labour. Ability to tell truth from lies.
Cohen or Hrun cleaning up... from a Health & Efficiency slant - strength through hygiene :PCarrot is he wasn't being used elsewhere. Or Detritus, since he strongly committed to cleaning the city of troll drugs. They don't have to be major characters and anyway Cohen isn't as he's in 3 books. We did think of having a Troll but thought the discernment factor was more pertinent (like oiled muscles flexing admittedly) :P
How about the Nac MacFeegle, or the librarian?

12 ~ The Hanged Man
Halt or Suspension. Abandonment/Unshared love.
The gallows dummy in AM (FoC)? I'd say Nutt? Giving a card to a inanimate object? Silly! OVERRULED - NP with objects if the significance fits. :twisted:
I'd have thought this fits Moist rather well, both literally and metaphorically.

13 ~ Death
New Start/New beginnings, even new life. Cut with the past.
Who d'you think? :roll:
Image(see what I did there? It's a [drum] roll) Image

14 ~ Temperance
Adapting to new experience. Reconciliation in business.
Black Ribbon and bats Maladicta? CMOT (entrepreneurial skills - trend-jumping)?
Twoflower? Maybe not. How about the librarian, he definitely adapted to new experiences. :wink:

15 ~ The Devil
Slavery/selfish outlook. Licentiousness/ Robberies.
Overall we think The Auditors as a collective entity that hates life :evil: Teatime? Pin and Tulip? Carcer?
I think Teatime just edges it over the others. The Auditors are entirely without any human traits or emotions, so you can't really attribute evil to them. There's Moist's enemy in Making Money, what was his name Image? Cribbins!

16 ~ The Tower
Danger/Setbacks/Unexpected blow. Freeing from prison/risk of serious illness.
Tower of Art - with or without the Draco Nobilis :wink:


17 ~ The Star (Pool of the Night)
Dawning of peace hope and prosperity/beauty. Cosmic Harmonies.
Red Star from LF in night sky - reflected in a body of water. Lobsang & Jeremy (ToT)?
Image

18 ~ The Moon
Illusion/mirage/a complicated life
Elves in moon's light - possibly riding yarrow stalks (whatever they are... (L&L) :roll: )Lily Weatherwax?
(Susan and Granny are both opponents of illusion and fight it whenever they encounter it (exposing the bogeymen and intolerance of play-acting 8) )
Definitely one of the Lords & Ladies. How about the Queen from The Wee Free Men?

19 ~ The Sun (Dome of the Sky)
Sincere affection. Noble sentiments.
:? Hard one to discify this. Possibly Druids flying sarsen stones to Llamedos across a sunny sky OR use Egyptian style Nut-type Goddess from Pyramids (pooh'll like that :P )
Possibly Tiffany or Granny Aching?

20 ~ Judgement
A good card, predicting library work. Stability in business. Health.
AM Watch badge :wink:
I guess the librarian is a bit obvious and literal, although 'health' fits, with the exception of 'The Last Continent', but I like him best for Temperance

21 ~ The World
Feminine card.
If a man it’s his thoughts, if a woman it’s her personality. Perfection, Inspiration. Good health.
Great A'tuin, ellies and disc 8)
Image

22 ~ The Fool
In-determination, wrong advice, thoughtlessness, abandonment of material things. Incompetence.
Rincewind - who else? :D
Clodpool. Well, you asked! Image

So artists - volunteers, please post your interest by picking a number and then discuss your subject in here if you need more info or explanations :D


Do you want a single font, or different designs for each card? Does NP mean No Problem? They're my initials, so I was initially a bit confused. :?
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:30 pm

:lol: No Problem. Sorry - I hate acronyms normally but online shorthand's so inevitable sometimes when you're in a rush.... :oops:

Will be adding most of those to the master list (top post) where they depart from what we already have :)

Re the calligraphy I'm thinking more in terms of a single style as a deck rather than rendered individually, but as it's likely that more than 1 person will be doing these cards, you can experiment if you want to get really creative but I'll PM you a template for the cards soon - because we're keeping them in line with the Roundworld tarot we want Roman numerals rather than Arabic (and use IIII not IV for 4 please - can't be doing with that :roll: ) and the line height is limited so that's something for you to take into consideration in context with the image. :wink:
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Postby Arianwen » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:01 pm

Im not sure about Carrot and Angua for the lovers , I think Carrot fits strength better.
If their not being used else where I think maybe Vimes and Sybil as the lovers ? or The wintersmith and whats her name Summer?
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Postby Arianwen » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:02 pm

Oh and I also agree with the sugestion of Moist for the hanged man
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:11 pm

Am coming round to Moist actually - even if hanging's too good for him :P

Thanks for those Arianwen. Keep 'em coming folks even if you're not doing the artwork we do need inspiration and if we get a better suggestion then that's the one we'll likely use when Meerkat does a final sweep on who's or what's representing the various cards.

I know I keep saying it but I've done a template for these now so I'll have a preiminary go at using it this weekend (have finally bitten the bullet and downloaded Art Rage) so we can pull that to bits as well :wink:

Nick - I'll be sending you a link to the template by PM shortly as you can then start playing with the calligraphy :D We want the cards as named in the top post list with roman numerals please - the template will explain 8)
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:36 am

Had some news about this last night - so far as the convention goes we'll probably have to can this part of things altogether as someone (as predicted by Bickaxe) has a licence to market Caroc/Tarot cards next year and, as we're only going to need the one set for the convention, it's probably not worth proceeding with as we can simply buy an official set... :roll:

However he hasn't actually said we can't do this, just that he doesn't want it buggering up his official line, so if people want to continue with this part of the project then we can on the basis that it's soley for use for members on here and no money changes hands (which was always going to be the case anyhoo). I know Nick's keen to do some typography for us on this part and we've already had a lot of input from people so I'm happy to carry on with it on that basis. :D

This doesn't effect the Cripple Mr. Onion decks - he's fine with those and may well come and have a play himself with us at the convention :lol:
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