Feet of Clay Discussion **Spoilers**

Moderators: Jason, Toothy, Tonyblack

Postby Tonyblack » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:22 am

You have two weeks to read or reread Eric for the discussion starting on Monday 4th July. :D
"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
User avatar
Tonyblack
Moderator
 
Posts: 28637
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:29 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Postby ChristianBecker » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:02 am

Ohhh.... I'm looking forward to that one.

@Tony:

The wallpaper thing in FoC is a double reference (or at least I think so and the Annotated Pratchett File agrees on that).
One is to "The Yellow Wallpaper" by Charlotte Perkins Gilman, which I have never read (but my girlfriend had to and she told me the plot.)
The other reference is to the GREEN colour on the wall:
Omniscient Wikipedia wrote:Copper acetoarsenite was used as a green pigment known under many names, including 'Paris Green' and 'Emerald Green'. It caused numerous arsenic poisonings. Scheele's Green, a copper arsenate, was used in the 19th century as a colouring agent in sweets.[
Last edited by ChristianBecker on Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
On with their heads! I'm the clown prince of fools
if you don't get the joke it's your loss
Love and laughter you see are the new currency
'cause greed's coinage is not worth a toss

Exile yourself to the unforgiving continent of Wraeclast!
User avatar
ChristianBecker
Member
 
Posts: 4033
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:21 pm
Location: Bingen

Postby poohcarrot » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:06 am

It'll be pretty short, I reckon. :D
"Disliking Carrot would be like kicking a puppy."
"You kicked a puppy," Lobsang said accusingly.
User avatar
poohcarrot
Member
 
Posts: 10425
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:11 pm
Location: NOT The land of the risen Son!!

Postby pip » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:06 am

Can start reading it five mins before the discussion then :lol:
'There is no future for e-books, because they are not books. E-books smell like burned fuel.'
Ray Bradbury (RIP)
User avatar
pip
Member
 
Posts: 9334
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:20 am
Location: KILDARE

Postby Tonyblack » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:12 am

ChristianBecker wrote:Ohhh.... I'm looking forward to that one.

@Tony:

The wallpaper thing in FoC is a double reference (or at least I think so and the Annotated Pratchett File agrees on that).
One is to "The Yellow Wallpaper" by Charlotte Perkins Gilman, which I have never read (but my girlfriend had to and she told me the plot.)
The other reference is to the GREEN colour on the wall:
Omniscient Wikipedia wrote:Copper acetoarsenite was used as a green pigment known under many names, including 'Paris Green' and 'Emerald Green'. It caused numerous arsenic poisonings. Scheele's Green, a copper arsenate, was used in the 19th century as a colouring agent in sweets.[
The dumb waiter plot rings a bell with me as well. I'm not a great reader of mysteries, but I have the feeling that there are certainly a few referenced in this book.

I loved the bit about not being able to find clues because of all the fingerprints. :lol:
"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
User avatar
Tonyblack
Moderator
 
Posts: 28637
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:29 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Postby The Mad Collector » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:09 am

ChristianBecker wrote:Ohhh.... I'm looking forward to that one.

@Tony:

The wallpaper thing in FoC is a double reference (or at least I think so and the Annotated Pratchett File agrees on that).
One is to "The Yellow Wallpaper" by Charlotte Perkins Gilman, which I have never read (but my girlfriend had to and she told me the plot.)
The other reference is to the GREEN colour on the wall:
Omniscient Wikipedia wrote:Copper acetoarsenite was used as a green pigment known under many names, including 'Paris Green' and 'Emerald Green'. It caused numerous arsenic poisonings. Scheele's Green, a copper arsenate, was used in the 19th century as a colouring agent in sweets.[


Napolean is supposed to have been poisoned by the green wallpaper in his bedroom on St Helena
One of those? Oh I'm sure I have one somewhere..

http://www.bearsonthesquare.com
User avatar
The Mad Collector
Member
 
Posts: 9471
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:48 am
Location: Ironbridge UK

Postby Tonyblack » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:19 am

Now you mention it - I think I may have heard of that. :)
"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
User avatar
Tonyblack
Moderator
 
Posts: 28637
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:29 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Postby raisindot » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:18 pm

Did anyone find the 'gotcha' moment when Vimes claimed to prove that Dragon had poisoned the candles to be a little bit lame?

After all, Vimes had been accusing him of poisoning the candles all along, and Dragon had been providing a rather strong alibi to prove he had nothing do with it.

Then, when Dragon starts weakening, he looks at the candles in his study and accuses Vimes of poisoning them. Vimes says that Dragon's glance proves his guilt. How does it, though? If Vimes hadn't mentioned the poisoned candles at all during their conversation and Dragon had glanced at the holy water candles, there might have a been a case to make (the old "I never told you how Colonel Mustard was murdered. How did you know that someone bludgeoned him with a candlestick in the library?" gambit.) But Vimes had already told him how the poisoning occurred.

I also found it quite a bit stretching that Dragon wouldn't have immediately known that Vimes was in his study when he returned. Or that he didn't immediately turn into a swarm of bats when Dorfl grabbed him. (How the Watch would have been able to even keep him inside a cell is a challenge in itself).
raisindot
Member
 
Posts: 3108
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:28 pm
Location: Boston, MA USA

Postby ChristianBecker » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:39 am

Can't remember the scene exactly, since I'm not that far, yet. But if it is like you say, then it is really a bit lame.

On the other hand Dragon DID come up with the motto Art brought forth the candle/ Ars enixa est candelam - that nearly is a confession in itself.

A bit off topic: Pterry often uses Latin-ish phrases and most of the time they're not correct (for humourous reasons or for the readers the better to understand them.) But I always wondered about Ars enixa est candelam. Who thought this one up for Pterry (who, if I remember correctly, does not know Latin)? Not only is it correct latin, "eniti" is also quite an uncommon word (I had never before seen it and I studied Latin).
I really marvelled at that motto.
On with their heads! I'm the clown prince of fools
if you don't get the joke it's your loss
Love and laughter you see are the new currency
'cause greed's coinage is not worth a toss

Exile yourself to the unforgiving continent of Wraeclast!
User avatar
ChristianBecker
Member
 
Posts: 4033
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:21 pm
Location: Bingen

Postby Tonyblack » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:19 am

What exactly does Ars enixa est candelam translate as? Vimes seems to know - eventually, but I don't think Terry explains it. :?
"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
User avatar
Tonyblack
Moderator
 
Posts: 28637
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:29 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Postby The Mad Collector » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:26 am

"Art Brought Forth the Candle.", Vimes starts off with that and translates it into latin himself
One of those? Oh I'm sure I have one somewhere..

http://www.bearsonthesquare.com
User avatar
The Mad Collector
Member
 
Posts: 9471
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:48 am
Location: Ironbridge UK

Postby ChristianBecker » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:32 am

As The Mad Collector said.
Here in more detail:

Ars, artis feminine = Art (as in a work of art)
eniti, enitor, enixus sum = to bring forth (enixa because ars is feminine, est because it's thrid person singular); enixus sum/ enixa est is (roughly) present perfect.
candela, ae, f.`= candle (candelam because it is accusative case and eniti is a transitive verb)
On with their heads! I'm the clown prince of fools
if you don't get the joke it's your loss
Love and laughter you see are the new currency
'cause greed's coinage is not worth a toss

Exile yourself to the unforgiving continent of Wraeclast!
User avatar
ChristianBecker
Member
 
Posts: 4033
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:21 pm
Location: Bingen

Postby Tonyblack » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:53 am

Yes, I realised that it was Art Brought Forth the Candle, it's just that Vimes seems to make such a point about the translation that I thought I was missing something.

Oh well. :)
"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
User avatar
Tonyblack
Moderator
 
Posts: 28637
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:29 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Postby ChristianBecker » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:30 am

I think the point Vimes is making is that it was quite nasty of Dragon to put the solution to to the riddle how the patrician was poisoned right there in front of him in the first place. But it was so well hidden (in a way) that he didn't spot it.

Arsenix(a) est candel(am) - The arsenic is the candle. Add to that the poisonous lamp (lamp au poisson) on top of the crest.
On with their heads! I'm the clown prince of fools
if you don't get the joke it's your loss
Love and laughter you see are the new currency
'cause greed's coinage is not worth a toss

Exile yourself to the unforgiving continent of Wraeclast!
User avatar
ChristianBecker
Member
 
Posts: 4033
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 7:21 pm
Location: Bingen

Postby Tonyblack » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:17 am

ChristianBecker wrote:I think the point Vimes is making is that it was quite nasty of Dragon to put the solution to to the riddle how the patrician was poisoned right there in front of him in the first place. But it was so well hidden (in a way) that he didn't spot it.

Arsenix(a) est candel(am) - The arsenic is the candle. Add to that the poisonous lamp (lamp au poisson) on top of the crest.
:D Ah! Yes, now I can see it. I thought the must be more to it than that.

You'd never think that I enjoyed doing cryptic crosswords, would you? :oops:
"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
User avatar
Tonyblack
Moderator
 
Posts: 28637
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:29 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

PreviousNext

Return to Discworld novels

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests