BBC Film to show TP watch man commit suicide

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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:44 pm

Well there's Lazarus too of course :lol: Plus it has been known for some RL and more contemporary corpses to suddenly upset the diagnosis and come out of deep comas etc and be able to say, like Mark Twain, that 'reports of their death were an exaggeration'

Just goes to show you can prove anything if you try hard enough :twisted:
"Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not.” George Bernard Shaw
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Postby Dotsie » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:59 pm

Well I finally watched it. Ended up covered in snot etc. Now I have a headache. But I'm glad I saw it.

A wasp flew in while I was halfway through, and I'd taken my specs off cos I was boohooing, so I couldn't tell if it was a bee or not before I raided it, then it sat down so I could see but the raid wasn't firing properly, so I flapped at it & it went back out the door. Totally ruined my emotional experience.
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Postby Tonyblack » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:54 pm

I'm sure the wasp wasn't too pleased either. :P
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Re: In search of lost Terry !

Postby poohcarrot » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:19 am

I'm sorry. :oops:
I really, really did try to not respond, but I can't help it. :(

Someone elses servant wrote:A monk once told me: You cant see things if you dont have eyes !

He then went on to state that all bananas are yellow, fish live in the sea, and the day after Tuesday is Wednesday. :roll:

PS: I'm NOBODY'S servant! :twisted:
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Todo el amor para mi querido tio Terry

Postby moixblau » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:42 am

Gracias querido tio Terry por todo lo que me ha dado,
te mando mi energía y mi luz en estos difíciles momentos.
Con todo mi amor, desde Valencia (Spain).
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assisted suicide

Postby shaunywoo99 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:55 am

having only recently watched Terry's programme on choosing to die, i have to say , i found it compelling viewing, as a nurse specialist in psychiatry , i have many years of experience in dealing with individuals in an A&E setting , who are depressed, suicidal , and have often attempted suicide unsuccessfully.
i also see patients with alzheimers and other progressive and debilitating conditions ,who are greatly distressed , as are their friends and family
my experience has resulted in me being a strong advocate for assisted suicide
people , currently , in the UK, have no choice other than to attempt to take their own lives , often resulting in them surviving, but are often left physically disabled and/or brain damaged.
others , who feel they are left with no choice, to wait until the bitter end , are forced to suffer painful, and often , undignified deaths because the law states that that is the way it has to be?
surely , giving people the right to choose to die , to limit the suffering of, both themselves and their loved ones ,is the most humane option? , and gives the individual some control back over their life , which has otherwise , been taken away by their condition.
i understand this is a very emmotive subject, and individuals would have to be rigourously assessed before any decision can be sanctioned , but , meanwhile , people will continue to either , live in misery, or take their lives into their own hands, often unsuccessfully .
something needs to happen , things need to change and we need to be given back control over our own lives , it should be our right
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Postby chriskay » Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:53 am

Marianne wrote:Any resident in Switzerland can become a member of Exit, irrespective of nationality.


It's not necessary to be a Swiss resident in order to belong to Exit International. Although I'm not a member myself, I subscribe to their publication, "The Peaceful Pill Handbook". Although there isn't really a "peaceful pill", the book, or in my case the on-line version, does give detailed methods of peaceful suicide, one of which I may choose to use if I ever decide that life is no longer tolerable.
Earlier this year, I attended a seminar in Cardiff held by the founder of Exit, Dr. Philip Nitschke, and was enormously impressed by his serene presentation of what is an extremely emotive subject.
To me, the beauty of the methods explained in "The Peaceful Pill Handbook" is that they don't require the assistance of anyone (provided one is still physically capable) and therefore leaves no-one open to prosecution.
In my own case, I've chosen to talk this through with my family so that they are aware that I may, at some time, choose to end my life. I personally couldn't contemplate springing such a traumatic event on them.
Here's a link to Exit International.
http://www.exitinternational.net/page/Home
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My thoughts on the program

Postby JebediahIII » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:51 pm

I just wanted to say that the show was very informative and balanced and I thought Terry's take on it was perfectly natural. He didn't come across as a man trying to make a documentary but a human being discovering a side of life I think we're all incapable of truely understanding until we find ourselves snapped out of the daily trivia and it's thrust upon us. It's a stark and inescapable reality when it's yours and each should have the right to make their own decisions as the subjects in the video did. They were extremely brave in the face of the one thing that probably terrifies most people.

I cared for and watched my own grandmother deteriorate due to alzeimers and from watching her decline I can well imagine why Terry would be weighing this most difficult decisions as a potential option. Alzeimas is one of the most curious and hard to reconcile conditions but it does not mean life it redundant. Some of the most touching moments I can recall of the grandmother i loved dearly were the moments of lucidity that punctuated her confusion. And though those moments grew less and less as her condition advanced their appearance was nonetheless a connection to the person I knew, loved and respected - the person she was before her condition slowly took her away from us and herself. Though i will make no denial of the fact her confusion was at times very hard to watch and deal with (i was young and didn't quite know how to handle it all) and as things advanced she forgot me slowly the important thing to remember is I did not forget her - I loved her and i cared for her because she had always loved and cared for me and that wouldn't change because she had changed and become another person. what i mean is the people around you who love you dearly will always love and care for you even if you don't remember their names anymore or where the cornflakes are, or why you stokes the fire with coal until the house is like an inferno. Life is an experience and everythnig that goes with it - whatever path that may lead you down.

I don't quite know why i write this but Terry's story - a brilliant and talented man with a heart of humanity as demonstrated in his program - and the diagnosis of his condition, well it really struck a chord with me and I felt compelled to say what i thought and felt.

i've lost myself from the beginning and i suppose i have no real conclusion but to say each person has the right to decide their fate but that decision should be made for yourself and you only because the people around you will love you and care for you and consider it just another avenue in life of which there are so many always starting and always ending and always beginning again...
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Postby Roid » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:17 pm

You're right, assisted dying for Alzheimer's is a thorny issue. When I first heard about Terry's desire for this I was concerned it was the wrong decision. (I'm not sure I accept the view that anyone's decision to die would be right, which it seems most people here accept? The best article I've seen making the case is this openDemocracy article on euthanasia by a philosopher covering the arguments for and against - he has some criticisms of the 'argument from autonomy'. I've been recommending it to everyone I can!)

That said I get the impression Alzheimers can involve a lot of confusing distress, and isn't just 'forgetting where you left the cornflakes'. I'm not sure...
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:05 pm

roid wrote: (I'm not sure I accept the view that anyone's decision to die would be right, which it seems most people here accept?

This is now such a well-discussed subject on here perhaps we should set the record straight as I suppose this impression can be inferred from the thread content (well mine anyway :oops: ) but is not I think correct as to specifics.

There is considerable support on this forum for what Terry is investigating as an option he would possibly like to take should his condition start to seriously and irreparably affect his quality of life. He has made it plain that this is something he may choose and, in view of the current law in the UK that still makes it possible for people involved in helping someone die in circumstances that are legally defined as suicide (deliberately killing yourself, regardless of your physical, mental or emotional wellbeing), to be prosecuted and imprisoned for enabling an act that is not in itself criminal, but is proscribed legally, wishes to challenge the current law and wants a system of arbitration put in place to properly ratify assisted death under Human Rights legislation.

This is what I personally support without reservation and have done for some time, before I joined this forum and in fact before this forum was created and Sir Terry was diagnosed with Alzheimers. I do not think that 'assisted death' should be anything but elective (i.e. the individual's decision made personally and rationally for themselves) ) and respect peoples views who would not take that route even if it were legally open to them, whether this is for ethical or spiritual reasons, regardless of faith or cultural aspects.

The decision should be a right that may be taken as an option, not as a matter of course and, like many other people I can see that this procedure is capable of being abused in a criminal manner and so I accept that legislation must be in place to regulate how assisted death should be conducted to prevent foul play or institutional mismanagement in the public or private sector of medical/nursing care in hospital, hospices and care homes. As a person who has a chronic depressive illness I am totally and painfully aware of suicidal thoughts and tendencies and agree that this side of matters causes huge concern. On a daily basis unassisted suicide causes untold damage in physical and emotional terms for everyone concerned and connected to the people who do succumb. I would not (I hope) take my own life during the course of a downswing phase in my chronic condition - I choose this not because of belief or even inclination but because I know how my family and friends would suffer as a result of my 'untimely' death.

I do not need legislation to take my own life. Currently it is my choice not to and I cannot foresee a time when I would go against my own determination to stay alive. However, like Terry, if I were terminally ill and in great, irreversible pain or humiliation, lacking physical mobility or independence, or without intellectual integrity, discernment or consciousness and needing round the clock nursing I would not wish to prolong my life unnecessarily or become a burden to others, people that I love and care for.

I am convinced that there needs to be legislation and procedural formalities in place (as there are in countries where assisted death is legal) to prevent people electing to die without good medically or sufficiently rationalised reasons. I want the law changed so everyone can take this road should they need to, not just because it is their right to do so. If the law is not changed and I wished to die then I would want to do so in a controlled and successful manner and not harm myself unduly in the process or hurt the people I leave behind by making them feel my death was their responsibility or 'fault'. By opening up this debate the way is being paved for people being able to choose to die openly and honestly with as little stigma or repercussion of their own, reasoned decision in a civilised manner and in as 'comfortable' conditions as can be made for all concerned.

This has to be decriminalised conditionally - it would and should never be undertaken clinically without proper legal guidelines and under supervision of 'proper' channels. How that is done is political as well as legal. If there is a public need, which is now perceivably being demonstrated by Terry's and others investigations, then it should be acknowledged and acted upon through the proper judicial channels. If the law is to be changed then it should be on the basis that assisted death ought to be made available for all, as a legal option, should sufficient criteria be shown for that course to be taken on application, on an individual basis, and case by case. In this type of situation bureaucracy is needful but does not have to be made onerous as time (and timing) is also going to be a consideration. That is not the same as supporting assisted death with no proper legal criteria or procedural requirements being ratified and in place. Assisted death needs to be institutionalised by definition in other words and should never be undertaken on a whim or before other options are explored or eliminated. That is simply common sense. :)
"Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not.” George Bernard Shaw
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Postby deldaisy » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:12 pm

Roid wrote:You're right, assisted dying for Alzheimer's is a thorny issue. When I first heard about Terry's desire for this I was concerned it was the wrong decision. (I'm not sure I accept the view that anyone's decision to die would be right, which it seems most people here accept? The best article I've seen making the case is this openDemocracy article on euthanasia by a philosopher covering the arguments for and against - he has some criticisms of the 'argument from autonomy'. I've been recommending it to everyone I can!)

That said I get the impression Alzheimers can involve a lot of confusing distress, and isn't just 'forgetting where you left the cornflakes'. I'm not sure...


No. Not everyone on this forum supports the issue. I don't.
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:36 pm

deldaisy wrote:
Roid wrote:You're right, assisted dying for Alzheimer's is a thorny issue. When I first heard about Terry's desire for this I was concerned it was the wrong decision. (I'm not sure I accept the view that anyone's decision to die would be right, which it seems most people here accept? The best article I've seen making the case is this openDemocracy article on euthanasia by a philosopher covering the arguments for and against - he has some criticisms of the 'argument from autonomy'. I've been recommending it to everyone I can!)

That said I get the impression Alzheimers can involve a lot of confusing distress, and isn't just 'forgetting where you left the cornflakes'. I'm not sure...


No. Not everyone on this forum supports the issue. I don't.

My bold red in Roid's quote. I agree most is not everyone, but that everyone ought to make up their own mind on the subject. Much as I love Terry he isn't a factor in determining how I live or end my life and I'm quite sure he wouldn't want to be for anyone else on any planet, round or disc-shaped.
"Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not.” George Bernard Shaw
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Postby deldaisy » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:47 pm

Perfectly true Jan.

I don't enter into debates about God (is he/isn't he there) either.

Roid..... Just because alot of people discuss a subject doesn't mean there isn't room for discord on the subject. Thats the wonderful part of discussion and debate.

Obviously some subjects will receive alot of passionate and thoughtful posts (or complete tripe.... depends on the post-er). Its because its an emotive issue and a subject close to alot of peoples hearts. (and not just this subject).

Thats the best part of this forum.... made up of alot of different people with different views.
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Postby Dotsie » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:25 am

Deciding to die - can it ever really be right? After all, when it's gone it's gone. But if someone prefers oblivion to a lifetime of pain and suffering without release, then I would support their right to choose.
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:31 pm

Why does dying have to be 'right' or 'wrong'? We all die after all - it's just a question of when that's all *shrugs*.

In most western cultures life is valued in a very material way, how much you earn, where you live, how rich or easy a lifestyle you have. Then you look at somewhere like sub-Saharan Africa for instance. There life is 'cheap' in that actual life expectancy is very short indeed in some countries and utterly expendable or of no account whatsoever in others in terms of infant mortality rates or political instability, poverty or ignorance of whatever stripe.

We all die - fact. If we all aspire to be self-determining in life why not in death - it's easy enough to do after all, so why shouldn't it be done efficiently and with minimal legal 'fuss' and ceremony? :roll:
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