3.14159265 wrote:I love the TFE to bits.
Most of you have already enumerated all the reasons already before.
But there is one reason that has not been listed here yet.
I found that TP's books have this marvelous way of showing you a picture of a vase for most of the book and suddenly when you see the vase again, its suddenly is 2 faces!
It happened to me in Men at arms, when the gonne suddenly meant a gun.
It happened to me in this book when the fat deposits suddenly became oil and suddenly all the oil politics of our world was refracted through the discworld prism in this book.
I love those moments in the discworld books. Has anyone else had these moments?
Mixa wrote:…Cheery’s revolution, Detritus’ Picemaker, Vimes’ Beast at its purest (or in this case darkest)… Am I the only one that saw him like a kind of Bruce Willis in “Die hard”? He isn’t a hero, he is a survivor who knows that to survive sometimes you have to be a bastard, but he isn’t cruel because his values and badge prevent him to be it.
For me great as always!
=Tamar wrote:I see Carrot showing off, trying to show that he can take off any time he wants to and the Watch will be just fine. I see Vetinari deliberately choosing Colon because he wants to show Carrot the worst possible scenario. T5E reveals a lot about Carrot.
raisindot wrote:=Tamar wrote:I see Carrot showing off, trying to show that he can take off any time he wants to and the Watch will be just fine. I see Vetinari deliberately choosing Colon because he wants to show Carrot the worst possible scenario. T5E reveals a lot about Carrot.
I don't see it that way at all. Carrot isn't "showing off;" he's becoming selfish because he's lost his dog. Angua's "abandonment" signals that his ability to manipulate everyone to be his "subjects" in his non-declared kingly way is beginning to loosen. He certainly knows that Angua will be fine on her own, but that isn't good enough for him. He can't accept change that affects him personally unless it's on his own terms. He's not "nice" at all in the book. Instead of convincing Gaspode to follow him using his usual kingly powers of persuasion he has to bribe the little doggie and generally doesn't treat him kindly. Instead of helping Angua when he finally finds he gets in her way, creating a third wheel in her relationship with Gavin. He serves no real purpose in helping to solve the "crime", and doesn't even get an audience with the low king of the dwarfs---something any dwarf, real or adopted, would kill for.
raisindot wrote:In TFE, Pratchett is very consciously bringing Carrot down to size, removing the would-be-king aura that he wore in previous books. It's necessary for Carrot to lose this power in order for Vimes to grow in stature as one of the DW"s most important civic figures.
raisindot wrote:But this Carrot isn't able--or is simply unwilling--to muster his kingly authority to right the situation himself. Instead, he has to send Nobby and Colon out to do his dirty work for him.
=Tamar wrote:Oh, I agree, definitely. You make many excellent points. But Vetinari has one other issue with Carrot that I think you haven't addressed: Vetinari's post is, technically, as the placeholder for the king. If Carrot ever did decide that Ankh-Morpork needed a king, theoretically Vetinari should step aside. I see Vetinari as attempting to train this hot-headed, still somewhat charismatic, still-a-teenager descendant of kings in what needs to be taken care of to run a city. Example: Carrot is still a lowly watchman, subordinate to Vimes, even subordinate to Colon, yet he has already worked closely with Vetinari in designing the new Watch in order to get Vimes to not retire after the wedding. Carrot is also younger than Vimes and is far more likely to outlive both Vetinari and Vimes. Somebody has to be properly trained to be able to take over, for the good of the city, and the city is Vetinari's passion. If his charisma holds out, Carrot could take over anyway, so it's best for the city that Carrot be trained properly. He heads out to Uberwald to follow his girlfriend (despite his proclaimed 'personal is not important' attitude) without even appointing someone to take charge of the Watch in his absence; as you said, that is dereliction of duty.
shegallivants wrote:Angua leaves, without notice to anyone.....[good stuff edited].....Wrt Gavin: It's not like he deliberately creates a third-wheel- if anyone is responsible for that, it's Angua, who honestly seems like the most selfish/irresponsible player here (which is not to say that I'm not terribly fond of her and understand her struggle). She could have left a note, she could have confronted Carrot but instead she just slips off, knowing full well that Carrot would follow.
=Tamar wrote:I just reread that scene where Vetinari shows Carrot the rotting throne.
He also mentions the origin of the word "politician."
If Vetinari thinks of himself as a politician, then that may shed light on something Sir Terry once said. People were suggesting that Moist von Lipwig was being trained as a successor to Vetinari, and Sir Terry said that Moist would make a bad Patrician, but that he would make a very good politician.
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