I have just finished Nation...

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I have just finished Nation...

Postby Quatermass » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:05 pm

...and it was pretty good. I remember being a little annoyed when this came out, as it wasn't a Discworld novel, and I wanted to read the next one. But now, having read it, I have to apologise for my rudeness. Nation, while not the best of Pratchett's works, is still a pretty damn good read.

Much better than Good Omens, anyway.

*ducks*
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Postby Tonyblack » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:22 pm

I really enjoyed Nation and I think the setting (not on DW) was just fine. :D
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Postby poohcarrot » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:38 pm

I liked it too! :P
It was impossible to set it on DW for the reasons I stated a while back. :D
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Postby Quatermass » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:42 pm

Tonyblack wrote:I really enjoyed Nation and I think the setting (not on DW) was just fine. :D


Oh, I agree. But I was prejudiced at the time Nation came out, and as an Aspie with narrowly defined interests, I am innately prejudiced against trying anything new. :wink:

I think one of my biggest complaints about Nation was that Cox was basically like a few Discworld villains I read. Vorbis springs to mind. Cox is basically Vorbis changed from an intellectual priest to a nasty thug.

Still, it was a pretty damn good book. 9/10, I reckon. I gave I Shall Wear Midnight 10/10, and Unseen Academicals 8.5/10.

I feel sorry for Mau, and in fact, I feel the same way, raging against the gods, albeit on general principle. I'm more generally misotheistic. :)
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Postby Quatermass » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:43 pm

poohcarrot wrote:I liked it too! :P
It was impossible to set it on DW for the reasons I stated a while back. :D


And those were? I may not have read that thread, pooh, could you restate those reasons, please?
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Postby Tonyblack » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:52 pm

Cox was a bit like Carcer I thought. Terry pointed out somewhere that Cox was pure evil and had no redeeming features at all.
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Postby Quatermass » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:26 pm

Tonyblack wrote:Cox was a bit like Carcer I thought. Terry pointed out somewhere that Cox was pure evil and had no redeeming features at all.


Yeah, but Carcer was more entertaining, if I remember correctly (it's been a few years since I've read Night Watch). Nasty, yes, and the difference between him and Cox is minimal, but I feel Cox to be more evil, as he strongly implied that he wanted to rape Daphne. I know that Carcer was probably going to murder Sybil and little Sam to torture Vimes, but I think that rape is probably the only line he hasn't crossed, at least on the page. Om knows what he got up to before the Watch tracked him down...

Actually, I know of another character he vaguely reminds me of. He reminds me of Mr Clete (Soul Music), if he was taken to Carcer Dun-like levels of nastiness. Cox is a professional who turns up in many places and does pretty much what he wants. Cox was First Mate on many ships, Clete ran things for many Guilds. Pretty weak comparison, I know, but Cox was pretty reminiscent of quite a few Discworld villains.
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Postby poohcarrot » Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:39 pm

This is wot I wrote many moons ago. :D

me wrote:Having just finished "Darwin's Watch", I reckon Nation is a continuation of Darwin's Watch, but in fictional form. It is about someone who struggles with his belief in God and in the end, finally rejects the concept of a supreme being, choosing instead to place his faith in science and humanity (like I believe TP does).

"God (Imo) made as clever enough to work out he doesn't exist"

In Darwin's Watch, in the alternative trouser of time, Origin of Species is written 100 years later by Richard Dawkins. The same guy who wrote the excellent "God Delusion" - an argument against religion which was very controversial. What a coincidence, Richard Dawkins also pops up in the last chapter of Nation and is called that "nice professor Dawkins".

Darwin's Watch has a go at creationism which claims the world is only 6,000 years old, saying it's all nonsense. Nation has a lost civilisation from 30,000 years ago. QED Creationism is wrong.

The whole of Nation is littered with anti-God/religion statements.

When I started reading Nation the first time, I couldn't understand why it wasn't set on Discworld. It could have been a small island somewhere and an AM ship. If it was purely an anti-war/anti-kill/anti-hate story there would have been absolutely no reason why not.

But on Discworld Gods exist. There's hundreds of 'em. It had to be set somewhere where there was only ONE God ie; a trousers of time leg of roundworld.
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Postby rockershovel » Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:12 pm

... which is more than I managed to do, I'm afraid. It just didn't work at all for me and I gave up half-way through, which is rare.
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Postby Quatermass » Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:54 pm

poohcarrot wrote:This is wot I wrote many moons ago. :D

me wrote:Having just finished "Darwin's Watch", I reckon Nation is a continuation of Darwin's Watch, but in fictional form. It is about someone who struggles with his belief in God and in the end, finally rejects the concept of a supreme being, choosing instead to place his faith in science and humanity (like I believe TP does).

"God (Imo) made as clever enough to work out he doesn't exist"

In Darwin's Watch, in the alternative trouser of time, Origin of Species is written 100 years later by Richard Dawkins. The same guy who wrote the excellent "God Delusion" - an argument against religion which was very controversial. What a coincidence, Richard Dawkins also pops up in the last chapter of Nation and is called that "nice professor Dawkins".

Darwin's Watch has a go at creationism which claims the world is only 6,000 years old, saying it's all nonsense. Nation has a lost civilisation from 30,000 years ago. QED Creationism is wrong.

The whole of Nation is littered with anti-God/religion statements.

When I started reading Nation the first time, I couldn't understand why it wasn't set on Discworld. It could have been a small island somewhere and an AM ship. If it was purely an anti-war/anti-kill/anti-hate story there would have been absolutely no reason why not.

But on Discworld Gods exist. There's hundreds of 'em. It had to be set somewhere where there was only ONE God ie; a trousers of time leg of roundworld.


Ah. An interesting analysis, Pooh. :)
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Postby mspanners » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:37 am

Nation is pants... one of the books I would not have in my collection except the Wife got me a copy when it came out.... I liked Good Omens...... but then it is only a matter of taste as which books you prefer... 8)
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Postby fanahoria » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:13 am

this book reminds me to the serie "Lost" There is and Island, a magic cave, people coming and leaving, gods, scientifics, Mau protecting the island and so on...

I also think that Cox is very much like Carcer, disgusting and very dangerous, but Carcer is more inteligent perhaps
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Postby Temple_maiden » Sun Mar 20, 2011 12:50 pm

I wasn't bothered about Nation, for the same reason as Quatermass - it wasn't DW and I was disappointed as I had been looking forward to reading a new DW book. But I was bought it as a present and I thought, What the heck - I'll give it a go.

I seem to remember quite enjoying it, but wasn't blown away. I can't remember the plot so it can't have been that memorable.

Good Omens, on the other hand, I loved and have re-read many times.
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Postby Quatermass » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:30 pm

I just finished reading Strata...and was disappointed. Not actually bad, but mediocre compared to Pratchett's later works.
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Postby pip » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:38 pm

Quatermass wrote:I just finished reading Strata...and was disappointed. Not actually bad, but mediocre compared to Pratchett's later works.


it definitely shows how far he progressed as a writer.
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