Jingo Discussion *spoilers*

[snowballs]

Has nothing to do with any WORDS you've been posting, Snowballs.

If you mean Mick Dundee, He is not allowed to hang around with me anymore

[raisindot]

Has nothing to do with any WORDS you've been posting, Snowballs.

If you mean Mick Dundee, He is not allowed to hang around with me anymore

Ohhhhhh....I was just gettin' used to him.

[snowballs]

Na he got sent away, he was gutted


But was I right about Leonards submarine??

[poohcarrot]

That means if he went under it before, it must have risen before, so he must have done his sketches on the risen island, as I said previously.

[Tonyblack]

That means if he went under it before, it must have risen before, so he must have done his sketches on the risen island, as I said previously.

No it doesn't. It has risen before, but a long time ago. Hence the ancient buildings.

The suggestion, as far as I can tell, is that Leonard used the submarine to visit the island while it was still submerged. Presumably he used some sort of ingenious device for sketching underwater.

At least no one has tried to seriously suggest (as they did when I did this discussion on another site) that it was the curious squid that built the buildings.

[poohcarrot]

Well if it hadn't risen, he couldn't have gone UNDER it before.

The curious squid built it???

Well, how stupid! Obviously it was the octopuseseseseses.

[Jan Van Quirm]

Well if it hadn't risen, he couldn't have gone UNDER it before.

The curious squid built it???

Well, how stupid! Obviously it was the octopuseseseseses.

He would have had to go under the water though...

The easiest way to sketch underwater is go inside something with windows so you, the drawing surface and drawing instruments are dry! Trying to draw in a diving suit, even if you've waterproofed your parchments and your crayons etc and then keep hold of everything you need as you're actually doing the drawing is very, very hard...

(Most of) island is under the water - need to go underwater to draw it - drawing underwater ridiculously hard - really would be handier to have crafty going under the water boat instead - ooooo! Let's ask the curious squid to help me build a going under the water boat...

Obviously!

From what they supposedly found with the smelly (? or was that the smell from the Boat?) undercity gas/floatation chambers below Leshp, it must go through a series of transition stages where it begins to rise and then fall as it fills and empties of gases in the 'caverns' underneath it. This surely is what Vetinari and Leonard were studying to work out how long it took for enough gas to accumulate and then disperse in order to calculate how much longer the island had left above water. Between the two of them (Leonard would be bound to have some kind of measuring system and/or device for them to use) they would certainly have been able to make a sufficiently accurate prediction, perhaps also using the existing records from the archives that Vetinari had found, to know roughly when Leshp would start to sink again...

Presumably when Leonard was there before, whether or not he was at sea level or below, it would also assist in working that out as well because he could only see under it, if it was on the way up, or going down, or whilst it was at full float

[raisindot]

Adding another topic to this.

What does everything think about the whole "Road to Klatsch" thing with Vetinari, Colon and Nobby?

While it might have worked better than a lot of the Colon/Nobby scenes in other books (particularly TFE and Thud!), I thought a lot of it didn't work all that well.

Colon's politically incorrect toot-talking in the tavern got tiresome very fast. And Nobby's attempts to get in touch with his feminine side in his coffee-klatsch with the women was literally a drag.

The only part of this I really liked was Vetinari's juggling demonstration, a physical representation of his incomparable ability to instantly and instinctively bring under his control whatever random events are thrown his way.

[deldaisy]

Jan said:

The easiest way to sketch underwater is go inside something with windows so you, the drawing surface and drawing instruments are dry! Trying to draw in a diving suit, even if you've waterproofed your parchments and your crayons etc and then keep hold of everything you need as you're actually doing the drawing is very, very hard...

crayons ARE waterproof....

run awayyyyyyyy

[Jan Van Quirm]

yep - that's the prob - they won't stick to anything in water because of that!

[Tonyblack]

Adding another topic to this.

What does everything think about the whole "Road to Klatsch" thing with Vetinari, Colon and Nobby?

While it might have worked better than a lot of the Colon/Nobby scenes in other books (particularly TFE and Thud!), I thought a lot of it didn't work all that well.

Colon's politically incorrect toot-talking in the tavern got tiresome very fast. And Nobby's attempts to get in touch with his feminine side in his coffee-klatsch with the women was literally a drag.

The only part of this I really liked was Vetinari's juggling demonstration, a physical representation of his incomparable ability to instantly and instinctively bring under his control whatever random events are thrown his way.

I hadn't really thought of it in terms of a 'Road To' parody, I always thought it was more to do with Wilson, Kepple and Betty. Throw in a bit of Paul Simon's 'Call Me Al' as well.

If you'll be my bodyguard
I can be your long lost pal
I can call you Betty
And Betty when you call me
You can call me Al

[snowballs]

Adding another topic to this.

What does everything think about the whole "Road to Klatsch" thing with Vetinari, Colon and Nobby?

While it might have worked better than a lot of the Colon/Nobby scenes in other books (particularly TFE and Thud!), I thought a lot of it didn't work all that well.

Colon's politically incorrect toot-talking in the tavern got tiresome very fast. And Nobby's attempts to get in touch with his feminine side in his coffee-klatsch with the women was literally a drag.

The only part of this I really liked was Vetinari's juggling demonstration, a physical representation of his incomparable ability to instantly and instinctively bring under his control whatever random events are thrown his way.

It is a drag sometimes but not allways, vetinari was good, but colon and nobby were not as good as usual.

71hour Ahmed is the most likeable charater in the book for me as he is a realist.
Rust is my most disliked.
Carrot is cool

[raisindot]

I hadn't really thought of it in terms of a 'Road To' parody, I always thought it was more to do with Wilson, Kepple and Betty.

That video is disturbing on so many levels...

J-I-B

[privateperks]

Hi guys, I've just finished Jingo and I see its getting some mixed reviews on here. Personally I really enjoyed it. I read it straight after Monstrous Regiment (Just reading them as I get them at the mo- will do them all in order when I've got 'em all!)
I think reading Jingo after MR creates a really cool comparison. MR is much more concerned with the actual day to day hardships and trials of war, Jingo is much more to do with the politics of war and how they start. I also hate it when people refer to Terry's work as 'spoof'- yes the discworld pokes fun at the stupidity of our own planet and the way we act sometimes, but I don't think a book that deals with issues like racism, prejudice and hostility between cultures and nations can be referred to as a 'spoof' that is only written for a few topical laughs. For me thats one of the greatest thing about the Discworld- By creating a world entirely seperate from our own Terry puts us in the role of outsider looking in, enabling him to write about issues that we might find upsetting or confusing. I could go on about this all day, but I think I should get back to Jingo now!
I've noticed a few people don't like the whole Nobby, Colon, Vetinari and Leonard subplot. I personally dont think its inconsistent that Leonard goes to find Nobby and Colon, I think his imprisonment as a sort of mutual agreement between him and Vetinari: It even says that Leonard found it easy to get back into his attic afterwards, because he designed most of the
booby traps himself. I think in Jingo Leonard has a kind of curiosity about the outside world, like he does about everything else, and by the end of the book he's explored that. He says at the end of the book that its amazing what uses some men will find for his inventions and Nobby's assumptions about his ideas obviously terrify him.
As far as the whole football thing goes, I haven't read UA but Carrot grew up as a dwarf so maybe he has different rules? Also Vimes notices all the players in a scrum during the match in Klatch (I'm a poet didnt know it!) so maybe they all have different rules like European/American football/Rugby etc.
As for Vimes and Carrot. I personally love them both and I love their relationship. I love how Carrot does so well in Klatch and I think in this book, more than any other, we see his "Natural King" thing come in to play. This is for a simple reason. When Vimes sets off for Klatch he's doing so as a copper. As we know, thats what he was born to do and as he reminds us emphatically throughout the book, coppers are NOT soldiers. Vimes is not comfortable with the idea of killing anyone just because he's been ordered to, and he's definitely not comfortable with the idea of fighting just because the bigwigs have had an argument. To him the Watch must be neutral and the law must apply to everyone, albeit a Klatchian Prince. Carrot, however is a born king. Some people think hes simple and nice and brave but call those things honest, noble and courageous and you've got a ready-made monarch. Thats the beauty of it though- Carrot could NEVER be king.it takes much more than that to keep Ankh-Morpork under control, like a devious mind or a door in your office that leads to a big hole. Even if he could be king, the reality of rule would ensure those qualities didnt stay around for long.
I also think its really interesting that Vimes was quick to assume the Klatchians had been set up in Ossie's bedroom by Ankh-Morporkians and that he was so upset about having to arrest Vetinari. I think that was a really sweet part of the book- Vimes hates being "Vetinari's Terrier" but feels incredible loyalty towards him. They've got a really great relationship.
What do you lot think?!! x

[high eight]

I hadn't really thought of it in terms of a 'Road To' parody, I always thought it was more to do with Wilson, Kepple and Betty.

That video is disturbing on so many levels...

J-I-B

And the tradition continues

At least Gadaffi has got a gig once things finally go belly-up in Libya