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Postby Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:11 pm

Egads, we had a doctor like that in the medical department of the Chrysler automotive factory I worked at, she said "God could heal you just like that" and snapped her fingers... then she said "But he has a reason for not doing it."

Have you ever had to restrain yourself from slapping someone silly? I really had to. I liked the doctor right up until that point and still liked her but decided that she was a nutjob who decided to wear the robe of Christianity like a mantle and decree things from on HIGH.

I am relatively sure that we go on after this life, and am leaning towards reincarnation, but, even when I did the christian gig, I never felt the need to beat people over the head with it. what I got from the bible was to live your life in a manner of "Live and Let Live" and "Do unto others like you want done to you"

That woman should be locked up and seriously mentally examined for her own good.
Aha! So, Bob's yer uncle... very clever.
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Postby Lady Vetinari » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:03 pm

I'm friends with someone on FB who thinks that people WILL illness on themselves. His philosophy is that if you stay fit and healthy you won't suffer a days illness and pain is only an illusion and that it is the mind playing tricks on you ... :shock: It is only you that stresses you ... I'm like thinking what PLANET does he live on?

My answer to that is ... Ooookay what about those people who eat fatty foods hardly do any exercise and smoke and drink and live to their early nineties... constantly at the doctor's too ... and there are people who bike, sail, eat right, and only watch television when there is something valid on and don't touch a drop of alcohol and never have SMOKED ... die of cancer?

I once had a series of chest infections ... the Doctor after the third time said: "You know it's not fair you getting these chest infections when you don't even smoke!" that was nearly ten years ago. I have since developed asthma so bad that I can't eat peanuts any longer or cuddle a cat close to my chest too long ... and I love doing both!!! Did I will that on myself? No!
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Postby Trish » Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:20 am

Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit wrote:Have you ever had to restrain yourself from slapping someone silly?


Yes. Unsuccessfully.


God has nothing to do with any of this.
I'm not sure there is a god, but if there is, he (it's a pronoun, get over it) is probably disappointed in us. I do find it comforting to think there is something a lot smarter than humanity out there, up there, somewhere.

Mostly, it's people. We tend to become, in groups /crowds /hordes, jackasses.
People are subjective and afraid. Of death. pain, of "being alone."
It is important to be a team player, a joiner in this world, always has been. We stick together for self-protection.

There are, however, those nutjobs, whackos and fatheads who insist that "god" speaks through them, meaning they speak only the truth. Shaddup, already...
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Postby cols » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:28 am

I'm a christian but I would never dream of ranting on to anyone about how they should or shouldn't live their lives , I have no right to do so and nor has anyone else,
On the subject of Dying with dignity,
I watched a Short stay in Switzerland last year and ( besides sobbing my heart out) I felt it gave people an idea of why some countries support this.

When my daughter was younger and wheelchair bound a lady told her much the same thing" gift from God " and so forth, actually told her she was lucky :? My daughter got very cross and told her straight out that God would never want anyone to suffer.
We also had issues at some 'christian' conventions where some people were of the belief that our daughter was ill because we had been sinful :? :? Well then it was a case of restrain that woman(me)

There are a lot of people who use the veil of religion to judge others and it is one of those things that makes my blood boil :evil:
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:33 am

Haven't got much time today but badly need to vent. I haven't much religion/spirituality and no time whatsoever for any organised religion of whatever stripe or belief system (although of the lot Buddhism seems pretty much there respect-wise).

Without fail most 'desert' religions preach tolerance and the need NOT to harm others - yes Islam as well, in fact the Quoran is possibly a lot more rational on that point than the Bible. And what happens? The priest/celebrants and bigots and nut-jobs take perfectly simple statements like 'Love thy neighbour as thyself'; 'Turn the other cheek'; and most of all 'Thou shalt not kill'; (sorry any muslims looking in but I can't really quote from your book as I'm not allowed to read it... :roll: ) and within about 100 years or so, depending on where you live, all of a sudden there's 'excepts' or 'buts' cropping up in there...

Love thy neighbour as thyself - except those at #22 'cos their food stinks up the neighbourhood...
Thou shalt not kill - but not necessarilly where the hindu comunity over the hill is concerned - they're the spawn of Satan and we never see them at church of a Sunday...
Turn the other cheek - except when you've already turned both cheeks. Third strike and you can kill the b*stards. :evil:

If I believed in a God who had apparently incarnated or ascended to heaven or sent a million prophets and he had said things like that, then why would I then go and do exactly the opposite and go against this marvellous being who is always right 100% of the time. Although I'm not a believer I would never set out to prove that God is Love, or God is Merciful, or God is Just, is in fact none of those things, judging by the way the 'voice' of his followers is concerned. I was brought up a roman catholic and I cannot start on how much I now despise a church that has been behind so many wars, so much oppression and so much prejudice, because we really would be here all day.

BUT - the teachings of Jesus still stick because I do still believe in what that man, whoever or whatever he was, was saying. Live your life peacefully and respect other people. We shouldn't live a life where we're disrespectful, or shun other people, or 'god forbid' :evil: go to war with them, just because they're 'different' to us or disagree about a few lines in a gospel/verse/commandment from some guy who lived before we had refridgerators or knew a lot more about surgery. It's only words in the end and people believe what's convenient of course - what suits them. What doesn't suit you is none of your business and people who try to say that sin is the reason why we have chronic illness and terrible diseases are themselves sinful - they're forgetting to 'Love thy neighbour as thyself'.

I hate that sort of thinking, but I won't kill you for thinking it, or call you names and put cr*p through your mailbox. I'll just feel morally superior and keep my sinful opinions to myself because I'm not going to waste one second of my time on a callous, indiscriminate idiot :x
"Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not.” George Bernard Shaw
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Postby Batty » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:27 pm

Phew! Jan! That was one helluva post!

I bet pooh is sorry he's not posting at the moment! :wink:

I do agree with you, though. I believe in ghosts so it's only natural that I believe in something - but I can't picture an old man with a long beard sitting on a throne.
Neither can I believe that God would want technology to advance to a degree when doctors can save lives, and then have a religious idiot allowing their child to die by refusing that child a blood transfusion.
That isn't 'Godly', it is shameful and sinful.

I also used to know a very religious Christian who had numerous affairs. His wife knew what he was like, didn't approve, but always knew that he would never leave her as they were married in front of God for 'Life'.

I can only suppose that she thought the affairs were down to all the 'laying on of hands' that they believe in!
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Postby Bouncy Castle » Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:22 pm

BBC News Website:

A US couple who prayed rather than seeking medical attention for their dying daughter have been sentenced to six months in jail.

Dale and Leilani Neumann, of Wisconsin, could have received up to 25 years in prison over the 2008 death of Madeline Neumann, who was known as Kara.

The 11-year-old died of an undiagnosed but treatable form of diabetes.

Judge Vincent Howard ordered the couple to serve one month in jail each year for the next six years.

One parent will serve the term in March and the other in September.

The judge told the Neumanns this would give them time to "think about Kara and what God wants you to learn from this".

He added that they were "very good people, raising their family, who made a bad decision, a reckless decision".

He added: "God probably works through other people, some of them doctors."

In addition to the custodial sentence, the Neumanns were also put on 10 years' probation, as part of which they must allow a nurse to examine their two youngest surviving children at least once every three months, and must immediately take their children to a doctor in case of any serious injuries.

Prosecutors said the couple had recklessly killed the youngest of their four children by ignoring clear symptoms of severe illness as she became too weak to speak, eat, drink or walk.

They said the couple had a legal duty to take their daughter to a doctor but had instead relied totally on prayer for healing.

Kara died on the floor of the family's rural home as people surrounded her and prayed. The emergency services were only called after she stopped breathing.

In their defence, the parents said they believed healing came from God, and that they had not expected their daughter to die as they prayed for her.

Jay Kronenwetter, Mr Neumann's lawyer, was asked in a BBC interview if he thought his client had got off lightly.

"My client sees spiritual treatment as the proper medicine and I suspect the people who want harsher punishment see Western medicine as the proper medicine, I guess therein lies the difference," he told the BBC World Service.

"My clients just happen to have a belief that is very outside of our social norm."

The couple are appealing against their convictions.




It beggars belief.
Some are born great, some achieve greatness and some have greatness thrust upon them.

The rest of us are a bit crap.
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:23 pm

Batty wrote:Phew! Jan! That was one helluva post!

I bet pooh is sorry he's not posting at the moment! :wink:

:lol: I said the other day I don't actually disagree with pooh an awful lot but we do occasionally have to give him a bit of a workout so as he isn't a round for a bit I can do devil's advocate duty instead - I do actually believe in the devil BTW but he's not some guy with goat legs and goatee beard and horns to match :twisted:

Bouncy - I think someone put up something about that very case a couple of months ago and of course this once more illustrates the case in point. It wasn't just the parents there when this poor girl died on the floor - presumably this was family and/or members of their community all praying like mad. :x Some religions are just insane and I'm pretty sure the Bible says in a fair number of places that Jesus raised the dead, cured the sick and comforted the lonely and destitute. And these gits think they're good christians? Yeah right - and I'm the Archimandrite of Corinth... :evil:
"Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not.” George Bernard Shaw
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Postby kakaze » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:11 pm

Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit wrote:Egads, we had a doctor like that in the medical department of the Chrysler automotive factory I worked at, she said "God could heal you just like that" and snapped her fingers... then she said "But he has a reason for not doing it."


I'm a private pilot, and I remember talking to another recreational pilot once. He told me that he'd never feel comfortable with a "true believer" in the cockpit because he'd be too likely, when faced with an imminent disaster, to say "well, it's God's will." I have to agree; I'd want someone who believes that there's nowhere to go after you die to be in charge of saving my life!

On another doctor note, I just found out about the acid/alkaline theory of medicine. Apparently almost every disease is caused by eating food that makes our blood to acidic (I know this doesn't happen, but that's the theory).

According to this article diseases caused by acidic blood include:

Accelerated Aging, Acid Indigestion, Acid Reflux, Acne, ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder), ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder), Age Spots (Liver Spots), Agitation, Alcoholic Tremors, Allergies, Alzheimer's Disease, Aneurysm, Anger, Anxiety Disorders, Arterial Plaque, Arthritis, Asthma, Back Pain, Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia (BPH) , Benign Tumors, Birth Defects, Blackheads, Bleeding Gums , Blood Clots, Bone Disorders, Body Odor, Bone Loss, Cancer, Candida, Cardiomyopathy (Enlarged Heart), Cardiovascular Disease, Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, Cerebral Palsy, Cholesterol (Elevated), Chronic Fatigue, Cold Sores, Colds, Constipation, Cysts, Diabetes, Eczema, Endometriosis, Estrogen Dominance, Eye Twitches, Fear, Fibroid Tumors, Fibromyalgia, Fingernails (White Spots, Brittle, Ridges), Flu, Fluid Retention, Fractures (Broken Bones), Gallstones, Gastritis, Gout, Gray Hair, Growths, Hair Disorders, Hair Loss, Headaches, Heart Palpitations, Herpes Outbreaks, High Blood Pressure, High LDL Cholesterol, Hyperactivity, Hypertension (High Blood Pressure), Hypoglycemia (Low Blood Sugar), Impotence, Infections, Infertility, Insomnia, Irregular Heartbeats, Jerkiness, Kidney Stones, Loss Of Appetite, Loss Of Smell, Low Energy, Lupus , Malignant Tumors, Menstrual Cramps, Mitral Valve Prolapse, Moles, Multiple Sclerosis, Muscle Cramps, Muscular Disorders, Muscular System, Nasal Congestion, Natural Antacid [Fast Absorption], Nerve Disorders, Nervousness, OCD, Osteoporosis, Overweight, Panic Attacks, Parkinson's Disease, Plaque On Heart And Arteries, Plaque On Teeth, PMS, Poor Circulation, Sarcoidosis, Scleroderma, Seizure Disorders, Skin Tags, Sluggish Gallbladder, Spasms, Stiffness, Stuttering, Teeth And Gum Disorders, Teeth Grinding, Tension, Tics, Tightness, Tinnitus (Ringing In Ears), TMJ, Tuberculosis, Tumors, Twitches, Varicose Veins, Warts, and Wrinkled And Sagging Skin.

All I can say is "Wow!" :shock:

And, according to this site, to avoid having acidic blood we should avoid eating pig meat, beef, lamb, chicken, turkey, all mushrooms, peanuts, cashews, dairy products including milk, cheese, yogurt, cottage cheese, ice-cream, and butter, eggs, barley, corn, stored grains and cereals, stored potatoes, alcohol, tobacco, breads, sugar including honey, maple syrup, corn syrup, sucrose, vinegar, caffeine in any form (coffee, soda pop, oranges), high fructose fruits, hydrogenated oils like margarine and shortening, vegetable oils.

My favorite line was "The banana get liver spots the same way you get liver spots, through excess fermentation and rotting." :roll:
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Postby Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit » Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:53 pm

Sooooooo, if I am fermenting... why am I not getting drunk? At least that would be a benefit. I just got back from the Bum doctor and now I get to plan for my MRI without and with Contrast dye, AND my Colonoscopy... Did you know there are 5 to 6 feet of COLON????? OMG I am like really not looking forward to this stuff. How the Hells does Chris.ph handle this stuff?

Plus I have to start seeing my counselor again due to stress from the joy of these tests and get tested for intrauterine cancer possibilities..... AARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My husband does not understand how uptight I am. I am scared silly, and wishing I was laughing instead of clenching my jaws.

This next month is gonna suck... I have no idea how much the rest of my life will go, but if anyone tells me it is a "blessing" I am gonna "See Red" :evil: I WILL hit them. I may not stop.
Aha! So, Bob's yer uncle... very clever.
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:51 am

Kakaze - it missed out acid-tongued?!! :lol:

Pity really 'cos that's how my tongue felt when I read the list of 'banned' substances to take orally. I'm just glad that nobody explained this to the little ape who stood upright on it's hind legs, then began to talk and turned into us - stupid bloody list just about defined my entire 'most preferred' diet there (apart from the soda the tobacco and (mostly) the alcohol). :x Most everything we can eat (i.e. can keep it in our stomachs for more than a few minutes without it being orally expelled) can be bad for us if we overdo it and I am just so flaming sick of people telling us that meat proteins are bad for you...

WE'RE OMNIVORE'S FFS and have been since at least the last Ice Age! How else would we have survived this long - even if it was bad for us?
:P

Get over it medical profession - who're, in the UK anyway, often far more likely to abuse alcohol and live on takeout on a far more regular basis than most! :evil:

Tina - (((huggles))) See - purple! :wink:
"Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not.” George Bernard Shaw
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Postby chris.ph » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:07 pm

the first time i had a colonoscopy they gave me an alcohol based sedative it was supposed to knock me out , it didnt even touch me the doctor asked me how much i could drink so i told him about 16pints , he just shook his head and laughed id just absorbed the equivelant of about 12 pints and was still talking normally. i asked for my specs back and they moved the telly so i could watch, the procedure was progressing , taking biopsys and such when i spotted a black mark in my colon and asked the doctor what it was, he said it was my appendix, i then asked him "how bloody far are you up there" :wink:
the one they knocked me out for the week b4 last was funnier. i got home and had a bath as i was drying my arse i yelled out "f@@@@@@ h@@@" my misses thought there was something wrong and asked if i was ok and i yelled back that the b@@@@@@s had shaved my arse when i was out cold. she nearly wet herself laughing :lol: :lol:
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Postby Batty » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:01 pm

Image Image
chris, that is priceless! Image
Tina, I know how I would feel if I needed to go through all that, and I'd be scared too. Image (((Double Hugs!)))
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Postby Dotsie » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:54 am

Oh Chris! :lol: You know, some people pay a lot of money for that :wink:
What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!
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Postby Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit » Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:46 pm

Dotsie wrote:Oh Chris! :lol: You know, some people pay a lot of money for that :wink:


My husband says that to me sometimes when I do something a bit odd...
" You know there are people downtown who would pay good money for that. " Then I chase him aboot trying to pinch him while he giggles.

Oh, and the One time I got my legs waxed, Barbaric custom, the woman told me of a man she had to kick out when he asked one of her younger workers to wax his booty. :twisted:
Aha! So, Bob's yer uncle... very clever.
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