The Colour of Magic Movie

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Postby Casaninbetween » Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:47 am

I think the makers of the Colour of Magic movie were afraid to be dubbed racist had they included a silly oriental character like Twoflower. The same thing happened when an American version of Red Dwarf was made; Lister, who's hispanic in the UK version, was a caucasian American in the US version.

Personally, I don't like the fact they've made Twoflower American, since it doesn't fit with Interesting Times. Now, if they ever make a movie of Interesting Times, they have to either change the characters from the Color of Magic movie, make Twoflower a tourist on the Counterweight Continent as well, or make a parody of China and Japan with caucasian Americans playing all the Chinese and Japanese.
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Postby lawrenson » Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:28 am

Hi,

I'm sorry, but Craig Charles is no more hispanic than he is Chinese. And Lister is just Craig Charles.

His father was black, his mother white Irish, and he was born and raised in Liverpool!

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Postby Jason » Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:45 am

I'm in danger of repeating myself again - but when has that ever stopped me.

In The Colour of Magic and The Light Fantastic Twoflower acts and dresses more like an American tourist that an oriental one. We later find out in Interesting Times that Twoflower comes from a society that appears to be similar to Imperial China. BUT and this is the important bit nowhere in the series does Terry describe what Twoflower physically looks like. He describes his clothes and his glasses but that's about it. Also if Rincewind and The Silver Hoard can roam about the counterweight continent without looking out of place maybe the physiology of Ankh-Morpork citizens isn't that different from the counterweight continent.
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Postby Jarmara » Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:17 am

Furthermore, Terry has stated in the books that colour isn't an issue on the Disc, where speciesism was far more interesting

Black and White lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on Green


And so should it be when considering casting.
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Postby Tonyblack » Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:26 am

Jason wrote:I'm in danger of repeating myself again - but when has that ever stopped me.

In The Colour of Magic and The Light Fantastic Twoflower acts and dresses more like an American tourist that an oriental one. We later find out in Interesting Times that Twoflower comes from a society that appears to be similar to Imperial China. BUT and this is the important bit nowhere in the series does Terry describe what Twoflower physically looks like. He describes his clothes and his glasses but that's about it. Also if Rincewind and The Silver Hoard can roam about the counterweight continent without looking out of place maybe the physiology of Ankh-Morpork citizens isn't that different from the counterweight continent.


What he said! :lol:

There's a real danger when reading Discworld books, of falling into the trap of thinking that Terry is writing about a certain type of person from this world. Discworld is NOT this world, even if a lot of things may seem familiar.

And I agree that Craig Charles is most definitely not Hispanic. :wink:
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Postby mspanners » Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:35 am

Casaninbetween has a good point about the problem of TwoFlower been cast as a yank in the TV movie. Interesting Times was set in a Country that was almost identical to pre communist China. The Great wall, imperial dynasty's, Martial Arts and Weapons, Ninja style fighting men and so on.

As far as I know the US has no wall built around it to keep[ the people in, has no Imperial lineage ( unless you go back to the time the Americas were a part of the British Empire ), Martial Arts of the style described in the book Interesting Times originate from the Asian area of the World.

And the Red Army...............I think the Communist revolution was driven by the efforts of the Communist Red Army.

The Discworld has parallels that are obvious when reading Terry's books, no matter what has been said or printed. Take the last continent for example, No matter what has been printed or said about this book XXXX is Australia.

Twoflower is at least Asian and most probably of Chinese origin, well the Counter Weight Continent is as close to being Chinese as is possible with out calling the place China.
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Postby Tonyblack » Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:00 pm

mspanners wrote:
Twoflower is at least Asian and most probably of Chinese origin, well the Counter Weight Continent is as close to being Chinese as is possible with out calling the place China.


Let me ask you this. Is Lu Tze Oriental? The Monks of Time are somewhat similar to Tibentans and yet their country is nowhere near the Counterweight Continent.

Again you are saying 'this sounds just like China on Earth and therefore the people must look Chinese' - why?

The character of Twoflower is 'foreign' to Rincewind and the people of Ankh-Morpork. The actor they used happens to be an American ("yank" by the way does not refer to all Americans and there are a lot of Americans would be insulted to be called by that name) but the important thing is not that America doesn't fit with the details of the Counterweight Continent, the important thing is that he's foreign. He talks differently and wears different clothes that make him stand out.

What if the Counterweight Continent does have ninjas, a wall and the rest - it's NOT China, it's the Counterweight Continent. It's NOT the Earth, it's the Discworld.
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Postby chris.ph » Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:38 pm

got to say i agree 100 percent with tony and jarmara, people just assume because of their own experiences . terry has never said spcifically a country in the discworld books has a direct match on earth. saying that i am a llanmedosian so what do i know :lol:
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Postby Tonyblack » Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:10 pm

Actually, Colour of Magic is one of the rare occasions in the books when a person from a Discworld country is described.

Marchesa is a fifth-level wizard from Krull and she's described as:
"She is a woman with skin as black as the deep black of midnight at the bottom of a cave. Her hair and eyebrows are the colour of moonlight, with the same pale sheen about her lips"


There - a physical description of a person from Krull. But did we see any people fitting that description in the scenes on Krull? Are there any people on this planet with a physical description like that?

See what I mean? It's too easy to fall into the trap of thinking that the Discworld is the Earth.

Last time I was aware, the Earth wasn't being carried through space on the back of a giant turtle. :wink:
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Postby chris.ph » Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:15 pm

thats a description of a person from krull not a nubian its not a direct earth comparison
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Postby Tonyblack » Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:21 pm

chris.ph wrote:thats a description of a person from krull not a nubian its not a direct earth comparison
That's what I mean - that description doesn't fit any race on Earth.

Maybe they should have used make-up on Terry to make him look more authentically Krullian. :lol:
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Postby chris.ph » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:03 pm

couldnt imagine terry blacked up :lol:
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Postby mspanners » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:26 pm

Well everyone to the own opinions, but sorry the similarities between our world and the Discworld are to much for me to ignore, I still think the Counter Weight Continent is so close to being Chinese that anyone who had never read the books would assume the story was set in China upon reading Interesting Times ......
which is an interesting point in its self. :idea:

XXXX is undoubtedly an Australian copy, but what other parts of the Discworld are twined, as the say, to our World?

Ankle morpork, to me anyway, is a place that I imagine Bristol or London would be like in the 1700-1800's ,Lancre is Switzerland or one of the other small European Country's, Llamedos Wales and so on.

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From the books you can see the links between our world and The Disc, who many can there be? 8)
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Postby Tonyblack » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:50 pm

I'm not saying there aren't similarities with our world - of course there are, Terry is a parody writer. What I'm saying is that just because something sounds like China, Australia or Wales, it doesn't mean that it is or that it has to follow the same rules as China, Australia or Wales on Earth.

I also agree with you that the Counterweight Continent does indeed sound very much like the Orient on Earth, but that doesn't mean it is or it has to follow the same rules. And there is certainly no reason that the people there have to look like Oriental people on Earth.
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Postby chris.ph » Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:14 pm

got to say i agree with tony again!

in interesting times there were several clan names mentioned and even though i cant remember the name i know one was distinctly non oriental.
there could be people on the discworld who look like worf but you cant make the assumption that they are kligons just coz they lok like one.Im tall and was blonde when i had hair and when i went to spain people tried to speak to me in german so i answered them back in welsh. you cant tell where people are from just because they are a stereotype and u definately cant in a book . i know people picture things in their mind whilst reading but the author might have a completely different image in his. i agree about xxxx being oz and the counterweight continent being the orient in my mind but that again is my mind filling in the blanks.
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