Jan Van Quirm wrote:Your reasons are impeccable and correct - but you're wrong about Vetinari being a block of wood emotionally and/or intellectually.
poohbcarrot wrote:Chapter 9
"That (Mr Pump) don't frighten me!" said Jim. "They ain't allowed to hurt folks!"
"Wrong", said Moist. "Probably dead wrong."
"Right, that's it!" Jim roared, shaking his brother away. Mr Pump's fists raised instantly.
(*starts humming Guns & Roses theme from Terminator*)
pooh wrote:That's cheating!
You can't argue me with me about something I never said
I love Vetinari. He is one of my top 5 favourite characters. In GP he's wonderful, possibly even the best character.
(Actually, I've just re-read your post and your last paragraph isn't arguing with me at all. You are actually arguing with your own penultimate paragraph. )
Jan Van Quirm wrote: How does 'worried' sit with you? - that is perhaps the word I should have used along with calm, but the other thing that Vetinari's good at is trusting in himself and his abilities. At that first meeting Gilt has the upper hand and knows it and so does Vetinari. That's why he's the best and knows when and who to play and is never, never careless. But that doesn't mean he can't feel the odd tinge of anxiety - humans have hormonal and emotional stimuli for a reason and thats why the thought of robots/Golems/Terminators are so scary because they only have software and irrefutable logic. They don't have impulse or irrational spontaneity. Vetinari in that respect is 'Golemic' because he never loses control of his emotions but he does knows how that feels even if he doesn't act on those impulses - he gets someone who does instead - Moist in this case.
pooh wrote:Disagree 100% with you there, Jan.Jan Van Quirm wrote: I think Vetinari was calmly afraid of Gilt's potential to seriously screw A-M over
As soon as Vetinari met Gilt, Vetinari not only knew he would beat him, but also knew why he would beat him, and he knew how he would beat him......
Danny B wrote:(Can) Moist have any moral authority in the story, due to his despicable and reprehensible actions in the past?
Danny B wrote:Initially, Moist treats his "appointment" as another con; trying to get people to believe he's a good and trustworthy person.
Danny B wrote: Over the course of the novel, I think this gives way to something much more, Moist trying an even bigger con. Trying to convince himself he's a good and trustworthy person.
Danny B wrote:Moist is punished for his crimes, although not in a conventional manner. Vetinari makes him famous, removing his anonymity ... his primary weapon of deceit and neutering his ability to perpetuate further thefts.
Danny B wrote:Vetinari puts him to work in a job that killed people better trained to deal with (physical) danger. I don't think Vetinari expects Moist to succeed or even survive.
Danny B wrote:Moral complexity is something Terry excels at, often putting stereotypically "good" acts into the hands of bad people ... Fairy G-Mother, Vimes, Granny Weatherwax
Jan wrote:"but you're wrong about Vetinari being a block of wood emotionally and/or intellectually."
Jan wrote:Vetinari in that respect is 'Golemic' because he never loses control of his emotions
again and hopefully for the last fr*ggin' time wrote: Vetinari in that respect is 'Golemic' because he never loses control of his emotions BUT he does knows how that feels even if he doesn't act on those impulses
Janny Honey-Pie wrote:Did I say he was a Golem as in noun there?
Me wrote:you implied Vetinari was like a golem!
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