Vimes and Vetinari - friends, enemies or what?

[chris.ph]

welcome to the site elgohim

[Lady Vetinari]

I think that throughout the course of time they have become friends - as far as both men can be called friends. They definitely respect each other and work well together and I'd hardly call them enemies. Also Vetinari does have a friend - Lady Margoletta - he taught her everything he knows (well implied!) and she told Vimes to give Vetinari 'her fondest regard!' you don't say that unless you are really and truly friends ... So I do think he does allow a certain closeness but only with people HE respects. Also I think Vetinari would not do a thing to Carrot (remember EVERYONE likes him!) I think Angua would slaughter the Patrician if he did!

So there is mutual respect and they've been through too much together ... and don't forget - Vetinari allows Sybil to use his first name - and appears to like her too.

[CrysaniaMajere]

What makes one against the other is their point of view, because Vetinari has to make decisions for the city, not for the single persons of the city. Vimes is a man of the city and he cares about people, he hates aristocrates, kings, regents, every people with power. He wants to hate them. He doesn't allow himself to like them, because that would put him on the other side of the barricade. But even if he doesn't want to admit it, he has come to respect Vetinari because now he knows how difficult it is to run the city.. I don't remember which books, but he himself thought 'and Vetinari feels like this all the time..'
They are not enemies, but they cannot be exactly friends. They are two sides of a single coin, both have to exist to reach the right balance..

[Andy M]

I think that both of them recognise that they need the other to do the things that they can't.

Vetinari is the calm, steady master manipulator who eases people into asking him for what he wants them to have. He can not afford to have a temper or to act on impulse and so he needs Vimes to shake things up a bit sometimes so that he can settle them back down in the way that HE wants.

Vimes of course is aware of the rage within him, his dark side as it were and he recognises the need for him to have to answer to a higher “Authority” to keep this in check. I think he would like to answer to the Law itself but of course the Law, unlike Vetinari, isn't going to sack him if he steps over the line!!!

[Kladivo]

Whatever it is, each would cry if the other died

[Tonyblack]

Welcome to the site Andy!

Interesting that despite the Discworld Companion, no one here thinks they are enemies.

[raisindot]

I think that both of them recognise that they need the other to do the things that they can't.

Vetinari is the calm, steady master manipulator who eases people into asking him for what he wants them to have. He can not afford to have a temper or to act on impulse and so he needs Vimes to shake things up a bit sometimes so that he can settle them back down in the way that HE wants.

Vimes of course is aware of the rage within him, his dark side as it were and he recognises the need for him to have to answer to a higher “Authority” to keep this in check. I think he would like to answer to the Law itself but of course the Law, unlike Vetinari, isn't going to sack him if he steps over the line!!!

Welcome, Andy, and good observations. Vimes and Vetinari (interesting how both their names begin with "V") are almost a yin-yang type of arrangement.

The thing about Vimes, however, is that he is there when Vetinari is not--for example, during "The Word" when Vimes had to arrest Vetinari on suspicion of murder, or in "Jingo," when Vetinari was deposed as patrician, although, technically, Vimes was removed from his being commander of the watch as well. Vimes does, in the end, recognize the Law as his ultimate master, much as he needs Vetinari's political cover.

Jeff in Boston

[Sjoerd3000]

Welcome to the site Andy

[theoldlibrarian]

Remember: Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. I dont think they are enemies but certainly there is a rivalry of sorts. They dance a dangerous tango together.
Thats not to say Sam telephones Havelock a few times a week to drop down to the Pub:)

[Rincewind-Type of cheese?]

I believe they have mutual respect for one another.

[Tonyblack]

I believe they have mutual respect for one another.

Welcome to the site, Rincewind-Type of cheese? Great username!

[kieray]

i think vetinari sees vimes as a well respected employee someone who will get the job done

[Tonyblack]

Welcome kieray!

[chuckie]

Welcome to the forum Kieray

[ShadowNinjaCat]

Welcome kieray