Least favourite Discworld book

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Postby Dotsie » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:58 am

poohbcarrot wrote:a. It was very similar to Going Postal but not as good.

b. Whatever-his-name suddenly appearing as a clown at the end seemed completely silly. If it was the first TP book you read, I don't think you would have understood that bit.

c. Why did Moist throw himself in front of Vetinari and take the pie? Why would it have mattered if Vetinari got hit with the pie?


a. fair enough. I quite liked it though.

b. yeah, but you could say that about a lot of things in TP books though. I just gave G!G! to Mr D to read ( :D ), but I did wonder what he would think to the last page, where the dragons fly out off the edge of the disc. He didn't mention it though, he's a bright lad & probably worked it out for himself.

c. Are you kidding? If pie was headed for Prince Phil, you don't think someone would take it?
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Postby poohbcarrot » Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:23 pm

Dotsie wrote:c. Are you kidding? If pie was headed for Prince Phil, you don't think someone would take it?


I certainly wouldn't! :twisted:

Why did Moist think his whole life depended on taking it?
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Postby Sjoerd3000 » Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:49 pm

poohbcarrot wrote:
Dotsie wrote:c. Are you kidding? If pie was headed for Prince Phil, you don't think someone would take it?


I certainly wouldn't! :twisted:

Why did Moist think his whole life depended on taking it?


Because of this: "the dignity of the great could rarely survive a face full of custard, that a picture of an encustarded Patrician on the front page of the Times would rock the power-politics of the city, and most of all that in a post-Vetinari world he, Moist, would not see tomorrow, which was one of his lifelong ambitions."
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ER

Postby theboywiththethankyoucard » Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:02 am

:evil: The only one I hate is equal rites. The first 12 or so pages= amazing, but the rest I hated so much I skipped the book.
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Postby Tonyblack » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:00 am

That's a shame because although it's one of his earlier (3rd) Discworld books, there's quite a lot of depth to it as Terry explores the differences between the sexes and adolescence in particular.

Granny Weatherwax is still in a somewhat early draft, but it's interesting to see how her character has evolved from there. :D
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:52 am

*Nods* I think the early books are actually very interesting indeed to revisit. For Rincewind and for Granny especially. If you'd only gone with it for a few more pages The Boy (or is Thankyoucard better? :wink: ) then those first excursions into Borrowing for Esk would have blown you away and are even better than those first dozen pages.

One of the truly great things about Terry's writing is the way he rationalises the 'magic' aspects and with Borrowing I think he's amazing in the way he describes predatory minds like the eagle in ER and the Wolf in WA or less aggressive, collective ones and especially the Swarm in L&L - he goes for it where other authors (including Prof. Tolkien) fear to tread and for me that's really the best part of reading him almost - although of course the ironies and jokes are wonderful too. So many facets and you still don't get to the end of his talents :D
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Re: ER

Postby poohbcarrot » Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:17 pm

theboywiththethankyoucard wrote::evil: The only one I hate is equal rites. The first 12 or so pages= amazing, but the rest I hated so much I skipped the book.


So how do you know it was bad? :lol:
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Postby Danny B » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:29 am

Wow! Tough question, but deceptively easy to answer. Moving Pictures. The only Discworld novel I've been unable to finish since my first reading of it. I can't think of any justification for my dislike of the book, it simply doesn't ring my bells on some level.
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Postby Dotsie » Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:41 am

D'you know, I'm the same. I think I just don't like satires of the film industry. They always (although of course not in this book :wink: ) feature overpaid pampered darlings hammily acting their way through a weak script about overpaid pampered darlings (who can't act).

So it puts me off. Plus, Victor might as well be William de Worde or Moist with a fake moustache for all the depth we see.
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:19 am

Hi there Danny B

Plus, Victor might as well be William de Worde or Moist with a fake moustache for all the depth we see.

*Leaps to the defence of some of Gaspode's finest literary moments*
That's very nearly the definition of an A lister Dotsie - a lot of them aren't 'real' in any natural sense, off screen at any rate :twisted:. This is why 'normal' people like Jade Goody can become a 'star' - they at least have some kind of a personality (even if it's barely sentient at times) that raises some interest, often of the car crash variety, when compared with someone like Tom Cruise who's mostly famous these days for being a Christian Scientist and having fertility problems with various good-looking women who're much taller than him 8) (smiley pune)

But MPs not just about Holy/Hollywood it's about audiences as well and the part of the book where Victor's following Ginger into the hill and they're in the horrible slimy auditorium I think is some of Terry's best writing - gave me creeps anyway. With the 'stand-alones' I think the apparent 'hero' is very often a shell of a trumped-up plot device and it's the bit-parters (like Gaspode and the Throats in this of course) who shine at their expense and provide most of the action and of course the laughs. I will even concede that Rincewind comes into that category at times because he's the victim of the plot as is Victor and Imp and even Mort at times.

Actually as I write I'm reasoning this out and in some ways I think this is a fundamental part of Terry's appeal? The plot is almost always 'better' and certainly stronger than the hero figure? It's happened to Carrot as well to some extent (as those of us who aren't too keen on him say he's a really static character now and eternally consigned to the stolid moral high ground) and he's now defined by the other Watch characters that were originally subsiduary to him. I think Terry's very bored with heroes in general! :wink:
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Postby Dotsie » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:59 am

Jan Van Quirm wrote:Actually as I write I'm reasoning this out and in some ways I think this is a fundamental part of Terry's appeal? The plot is almost always 'better' and certainly stronger than the hero figure?


No, not in any books containing the Watch or witches, at any rate. And i still don't like MP :twisted:


And I'm not that fond of Gaspode, style o'fing :P
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:17 am

Sacrilege! PMSL :D

Me wrote:With the 'stand-alones' I think the apparent 'hero' is very often a shell of a trumped-up plot device and it's the bit-parters (like Gaspode and the Throats in this of course) who shine at their expense and provide most of the action and of course the laughs. I will even concede that Rincewind comes into that category at times because he's the victim of the plot as is Victor and Imp and even Mort at times. edit: highlights added for emphasis

I didn't mean the Witches or the Watch (except maybe Carrot :twisted: ) as they're all star casts more or less :wink:
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Postby Dotsie » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:05 pm

OK, I get that.

I also agree with:
Jan Van Quirm wrote:the apparent 'hero' is very often a shell of a trumped-up plot device


'cos I just don't really like Victor, or William dW, or Moist (even if he is turning into a serial character - he still reads like a shell to me :twisted: )
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Postby raisindot » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:13 pm

I think the worst thing you can do to someone asking which DW book to read first is to recommend starting at the beginning. I'm glad I didn't--I started with Thief of Time and The Fifth Elephant (the only DW books at my library at the time) and worked my way through the rest of the Watch and Witches books before I went back to the beginning, because, for me, nearly everything that came before "Mort" is barely readable today; either parodies of cultural things or parodies of fantasty/SF/Douglas Adams. If there was ever an author who shows a clear progress of quality from beginning to end it's Terry Pratchett. It's hard to believe that stuff like "Pyramids" and "Thud!" were written by the same author.

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Postby Lady Vetinari » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:21 pm

I am having difficultly finishing Fifth Elephant I must admit ... and Maskerade...

Moving Pictures was one of the first I read and I love the first appearance of Detritus and Gaspode in that one.

I had Monstrous Regiment read out to me and I can honestly say that is not one I think I'll ever buy!

I love William De Worde and hope he makes another appearance. Moist is all right too.
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