Witches Abroad Discussion Group

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Postby mspanners » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:55 pm

The trouble is how do you define a mirror..... effectively any reflective surface could be a mirror, the surface of a pond, reflection in a pair of spectacles or the glass in a window.

I am suprised that Terry did not make more of this in the book, Granny caused the mirror in the casino to shatter but could She still be spied on from other reflective surfaces?

Granny and Lilith were reflections of each other or flip sides of the same coin, I think, in the same way that in some of the Star Trek shows identical people from the mirror universe that were either evil or good copies of their doubles. Yin and yang, good and evil......but both part of the whole...... although both thought the other one was the evil one....... :shock:
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Postby Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit » Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:03 am

mspanners wrote: I am suprised that Terry did not make more of this in the book, Granny caused the mirror in the casino to shatter but could She still be spied on from other reflective surfaces?


Yes, any shiny/reflective surface, i.e. ice, water, shiny pots or pans worked too.
Aha! So, Bob's yer uncle... very clever.
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Postby poohbcarrot » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:15 am

"poohbcarrot..... not sure that Magrat lost at cards, think it was Nanny who was taken to the cleaners by the card sharps!" - mspanners

mspanners wrote:Granny caused the mirror in the casino to shatter


Not sure it was a casino, think it was just a bar :wink:
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Postby mspanners » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:35 am

Could be poohbcarrot, if so then I stand corrected sir! :lol:

I know I should not jump to conclusions but I always imagined the Boat as like one of the floating casino paddle Boats that you used to see in Black and White Cowboy movies from the 50-60ies.

And Granny as an aging Southern Bell ! :D
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Postby kakaze » Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:48 pm

In my opinion, if a bar supplies decks of cards to its customers, then it's a casino.

I'd agree with mspanners. Genua seems to be set in a New Orleans type environment and the Mississippi has a long history of gambling boats, though the actual "floating casinos" we have today have only been around for about 25 years.

During the early 1800s gambling in the lower Mississippi Valley became a legitimate and organized enterprise. The Mississippi River and connected waterways were major avenues of trade for farmers and merchants and the river boats carried passengers who had lots of cash. The south tended to have a more open attitude towards gaming, reflecting the Spanish, French, and early Virginian traditions.7 New Orleans became the capital for gambling.

[snip]

In 1835, a vigilante group lynched five cardsharps in Mississippi. Professional gamblers moved from the town into the riverboats. Lynching proved to be a successful policy option for reducing the presence of professional gamblers. In contrast to the river boat casinos of today, the old-time river boats were not floating casinos. Gambling occurred informally among the passengers.


http://www.library.ca.gov/crb/97/03/Chapt2.html

As for the reflective serfaces, Terry does mention that Lilith used non-mirror reflective serfaces to search for the wand:

Witches Abroad wrote: In fact it was dawn in Genua. Lilith sat in her tower, using a mirror, sending her own image out to scan the world. She was searching.
Wherever there was a sparkle on a wave crest, wherever there was a sheet of ice, wherever there was a mirror or a reflection then Lilith knew she could see out. You didn't need a magic mirror. Any mirror would do, if you knew how to use it. And Lilith, crackling with the power of a million images, knew that very well.


Here's a question for you:

Do you think that the quality of the reflective serface affects the image that the witch sees? I mean, if you look in a mirror you get a clear reflection, but if you see yourself in a shop window or pair of glasses it's usually blurry and transparent. Wouldn't the same hold true for someone who was scrying?
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Postby mspanners » Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:57 pm

kakaze well done! Never recalled that part but then again there are lots of things that I tend to forget like the Wife's Birthday card and our anniversary ! :D

I imagine that yes it would make a difference, a dirty/steamy mirror would be safe from Lilith... so no problem with a Voyeur spying on you in the bathroom if it is steamed over... Nanny Ogg has a Voyeuristic nature to Her soul, I would not be surprised that She has not dabbled in a little mirror magic !

Beware that mirror next time you are trying on a new garment ! You never know who is there...... :twisted:
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Postby poohbcarrot » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:07 pm

kakaze wrote:...the old-time river boats were not floating casinos. Gambling occurred informally among the passengers.
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Postby swreader » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:30 am

It is certainly true that Lilith can use any reflective surface. When the trio have just gone over the waterfall, Lilith thinks that though the ice around the river wasn't that good, it had been good enough. She thinks about what she sees--and largely discounts Magrat & Nanny--but notes that "... there was her. After all this time."

Though Lillith appreciates the power of three (of course there have to be three of them), she totally misunderstands her sister. She thinks
Esme Weatherwax had never understood stories. She'd never understood how real reflections were. If she had, she'd probably have been ruling the world by now.


But Granny understands the mirror, and the use of two mirrors--and so she shatters just one--and breaks the balance, trapping Lillith in the mirror realm, though she is able to leave because she knows how to recognize herself.
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Postby Tonyblack » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:28 pm

Regarding mirrors and reflections - did you all notice that the 'Cinderella' story was running in reverse for a while?

The dress was turned to rags, the coachmen were turned to creatures and the coach was turned into a pumpkin. :)
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Postby Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:56 pm

Yup, and poor Magrat had a teensy piece tucked in her pocketses.
Aha! So, Bob's yer uncle... very clever.
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Postby Who's Wee Dug » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:35 pm

sssshhh my precious
He willnae tak' a drink! I think he's deid! , on the other hand though A Midgie in yir hand is worth twa up yir kilt.
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Postby mspanners » Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:14 pm

Terry has a very imaginative and sometime twisty turny mind ! 8)

Most of His books are truly original even when He borrows from others !

He is one clever Man.... 8)

Who else would run a fairy tale backwards...... :lol:
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Postby Tonyblack » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:44 pm

What did we all think of Magrat in this book? :?
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Postby Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit » Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:53 pm

She is desparately trying to come into her own in this story. She is peeved at the other two for coming along, even tho it was Desiderata's true desire.

She is trying to find herself, through martial arts, jewelry, and being as darn good a witch as she can. It comes across to her patients in frightening ways. She tries to teach those who are just wanting a cure, not a lesson. She works very hard and resents the others as not actually taking witching seriously.

It is always hard to be the third in the group. In other books she asks Agnes/Perdita how she likes always being the one to get the tea, start the fire or whether her scones are disregarded too.

I adored her righteous indignation at Nanny's gambling away everything including her broom. Her innocent choice to keep a small scrap of the lovely dress is very telling of her personality.
Aha! So, Bob's yer uncle... very clever.
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Postby Tonyblack » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:38 am

One week to go before the Guards! Guards! discussion on Monday 6th July. :D
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