Vimes question

Moderators: Jason, Toothy, Tonyblack

Vimes question

Postby Nullus Anxietas » Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:06 pm

When Vimes thinks back about his childhood he remembers that everybody in his street had many children; Is it ever mentioned in any of the books how many brothers and sisters he has and what became of them?
User avatar
Nullus Anxietas
Member
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:10 pm
Location: Oudenaarde ,Belgium

Re: Vimes question

Postby Tonyblack » Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:11 pm

Nullus Anxietas wrote:When Vimes thinks back about his childhood he remembers that everybody in his street had many children; Is it ever mentioned in any of the books how many brothers and sisters he has and what became of them?


I don't recall any mention of siblings. We know (from the Discworld Companion) that his father was named Thomas and his grandfather was Gwillaim and that membership in the Watch seemed to be a family tradition. But that's about all we know of his early life. :)
"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
User avatar
Tonyblack
Moderator
 
Posts: 28897
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:29 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Re: Vimes question

Postby cabbagehead » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:30 am

We know he doesn't remember his father, and his mother said Thomas Vimes was run over by a wagon. Vimes has his doubts about her version.
cabbagehead
Member
 
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Vimes question

Postby raisindot » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:19 pm

You never really find out how many siblings he has, but I think you can infer that he must have some based on some of the little bits of narration you get in the books from time to time, particularly on the subject of the frenzied nature of mealtimes, when everyone basically had to eat as fast as possible to make sure they got their fair of the food.

Just as it's interesting how many DW men are bachelors, it's also interesting how many of them don't seem to have siblings (or those we know about). Vetinari, Moist, Nobby, Brutha, Mort, Colon, Detritus, and Carrot have little tidbits of family background thrown out there, but there's no conclusive evidence that any of them have siblings. Whereas, most of the key female characters--Granny Weatherwax, Tiffany, Esk, Angua, Cheery--not only have siblings, but one or more of them plays an important role in defining who they are.
raisindot
Member
 
Posts: 3200
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:28 pm
Location: Boston, MA USA

Re: Vimes question

Postby tmoh » Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:09 pm

Actually, Nobby does have a brother--he named Errol the dragon after him.
User avatar
tmoh
New member
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:38 am
Location: USA

Re: Vimes question

Postby cabbagehead » Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:02 pm

It is surprising that even after Vimes became rich and important none of his siblings showed up. Maybe they didn't survive? They'd be older than him or at most only slightly younger if he has no memories of his father.

Aren't we told Vetinari has no relatives aside from his aunt? So if he had siblings they are probably dead by now.

Susan is definitely an only child. Adorra had a brother.
cabbagehead
Member
 
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Vimes question

Postby raisindot » Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:59 pm

cabbagehead wrote:It is surprising that even after Vimes became rich and important none of his siblings showed up. Maybe they didn't survive? They'd be older than him or at most only slightly younger if he has no memories of his father.

Aren't we told Vetinari has no relatives aside from his aunt? So if he had siblings they are probably dead by now.

Susan is definitely an only child. Adorra had a brother.


SPOILERS AHEAD

I think has more to do with Pterry's narrative priorities than anything else. He generally only provides familial backstories when they're needed to shape the character's 'current' narrative. Characters don't have 'identified' siblings (or relatives even) unless these relatives play some role in the story (even in death). It's not important for Vimes' narrative arc to have siblings or even living parents. (Think about Night Watch: Wouldn't you have thought that one thing Sam Vimes/Keel would have wanted to do is see his 'old mum' (young Sam's mum), even if only in disguise? It never even occurs to him.

It's not critical for Vetinari to have relatives other than his aunt. Whereas, for characters like Cheery, Adorabella, Wm. De Worde, Angua and Granny Weatherwax, the lives (and deaths) of siblings play a key role in shaping who they are 'today.'

WARNING: NON-DW SPOILERS A COMIN'.



And it's not restricted to the DW books. Look at Nation. We never get a real backstory for Mau's family life before he loses them. No real discussion of his parents or any siblings. Whereas, Daphne's entire life has been shaped by family. It's interesting how Pterry deals with family loss in the book, in both vague and specific ways.
raisindot
Member
 
Posts: 3200
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:28 pm
Location: Boston, MA USA

Re: Vimes question

Postby cabbagehead » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:14 am

It's not important for Vimes' narrative arc to have siblings or even living parents. (Think about Night Watch: Wouldn't you have thought that one thing Sam Vimes/Keel would have wanted to do is see his 'old mum' (young Sam's mum), even if only in disguise? It never even occurs to him.


This isn't accurate. The younger version of Sam invites 'Keel' over to dinner with his mom and Vimes as Keel declines because in his reality his mother died a few years earlier and he thought seeing his mother alive and younger would be too painful.
cabbagehead
Member
 
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Vimes question

Postby raisindot » Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:08 pm

cabbagehead wrote:
It's not important for Vimes' narrative arc to have siblings or even living parents. (Think about Night Watch: Wouldn't you have thought that one thing Sam Vimes/Keel would have wanted to do is see his 'old mum' (young Sam's mum), even if only in disguise? It never even occurs to him.


This isn't accurate. The younger version of Sam invites 'Keel' over to dinner with his mom and Vimes as Keel declines because in his reality his mother died a few years earlier and he thought seeing his mother alive and younger would be too painful.


Okay. I missed that one. :D
raisindot
Member
 
Posts: 3200
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:28 pm
Location: Boston, MA USA

Re: Vimes question

Postby Fortune Clutterbuck » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:27 pm

Rule number 1 of storytelling: Kill off the parents
User avatar
Fortune Clutterbuck
Member
 
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:31 pm

Re: Vimes question

Postby raisindot » Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:10 am

Fortune Clutterbuck wrote:Rule number 1 of storytelling: Kill off the parents


Yeah. That's what kept Walt Disney rolling in dough for decades. Did anyone in a Disney animated movie ever have two parents who actually lived to see the end of the film?
raisindot
Member
 
Posts: 3200
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:28 pm
Location: Boston, MA USA

Re: Vimes question

Postby Tonyblack » Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:28 am

raisindot wrote:
Fortune Clutterbuck wrote:Rule number 1 of storytelling: Kill off the parents


Yeah. That's what kept Walt Disney rolling in dough for decades. Did anyone in a Disney animated movie ever have two parents who actually lived to see the end of the film?

Pongo and Perdita's 101 Dalmations. :P
"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
User avatar
Tonyblack
Moderator
 
Posts: 28897
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:29 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Re: Vimes question

Postby Kin Arad » Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:23 pm

Aren't Wendy's parents alive in Peter Pan, even if they don't really feature in the story, do they count?
“Wouldn’t that unplug your heating pad?”
User avatar
Kin Arad
Member
 
Posts: 675
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:32 pm
Location: London

Re: Vimes question

Postby Tonyblack » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:20 pm

Kin Arad wrote:Aren't Wendy's parents alive in Peter Pan, even if they don't really feature in the story, do they count?

Yes, but in most adaptations, Capt. Hook is played by Wendy's father. :?
"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
User avatar
Tonyblack
Moderator
 
Posts: 28897
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:29 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Re: Vimes question

Postby Fortune Clutterbuck » Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:03 pm

Peter Pan and the "lost boys" are all orphans though iirc
User avatar
Fortune Clutterbuck
Member
 
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:31 pm

Next

Return to Discworld novels

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest