Vetinari

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Re: Vetinari

Postby Oberon » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:44 am

prajuvikas wrote:Nutt for Patrician!
Yes We Can!
:D

I can't really see the Guilds accepting an Orc as Patrician prajuvikas but it's an origanl idea.

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Re: Vetinari

Postby prajuvikas » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:52 am

Ah...But if all the guilds object to him, then he would be the perfect choice. Anyways, he would be Lady Margalota's preferred choice....so he's unlikely to succeed...

(thanks for the welcome. Glad to be here)
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Re: Vetinari

Postby Tonyblack » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:32 am

Welcome from me too! :D
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Re: Vetinari

Postby Penfold » Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:36 pm

Hellooo and welcome from me too! :D
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Re: Vetinari

Postby TiffanyAching » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:55 pm

Oberon wrote:
TiffanyAching wrote:I don't think anyone else *Should* take over, but I think he'd name Moist VonLipwig as his succesor as he would be crooked enough to keep the city in order ;)

You might have a good point there Tiffany. Welcome to the forum from a another newbie. :text-welcomewave:

Late thank you! And hi to you guys too :) Aww.... I don't know how to do the animation :( :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Vetinari

Postby alicenanjing » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:31 pm

Nutt for Patrician? He certainly has the brains for it, and he would certainly have the know-how to manipulate the city and all the people who have a say in how the city is run, but he's an orc on a mission, and that mission does not take him to Ankh-Morpork, but to Uberwald and to whatever desolate mountains the wretched members of his race have taken refuge on. My hat is off to him, but I don't think we'll see him in the Oblong Office any time soon, except as an ambassador, perhaps.
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Re: Vetinari

Postby Ziriath » Sat Jan 14, 2012 9:19 pm

Nutt for Patrician? HELL NO!! Do we need an ABSOLUTELY FLAWLESS character to rule the city?
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Re: Vetinari

Postby alicenanjing » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:07 am

He's not flawless. He's an orc.
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Re: Vetinari

Postby LilMaibe » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:10 am

alicenanjing wrote:He's not flawless. He's an orc.


Tony, please let me answer this and list the things as to why the orc is obnoxiously flawless. Please :(
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Re: Vetinari

Postby alicenanjing » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:18 am

I know, I read some of the Latest Books thread. And I posted my last reply mostly to be cheeky, but the way I see it, someone like Nutt trying to become Patrician would have two and a half strikes against him from the start simply because he's an orc and, as such, would have to endlessly overcome, every day, the associations that the name "orc" has in people's heads, in other words, prove over and over again that he is not in the habit of unscrewing people's heads for them. Not that Nutt would ever try to get the job, I already said why he would not be interested. But Nutt in the Oblong Office would be much the same as an Afghanistan-born Muslim man becoming president of the US. Can't see that happening any time soon, no matter how "flawless" he is.
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Re: Vetinari

Postby Ziriath » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:46 pm

Being an orc does not count as a flaw. In the same way as being, for example, a troll, dwarf, elf,..cat, dog or rat is not a flaw. No matter where orcs came from- they are different species now.
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Re: Vetinari

Postby alicenanjing » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:46 pm

Of course, and I can be as politically correct as the next person. It isn't a flaw, just a huge PR drawback. As for being a different species now... well, they aren't, not until Nutt completes his life's work, not until he manages to heal a whole people and recast it in a different mold. And that's a job so monumental that a mere "flawless" character may not be equal to it, it needs someone like Moses or something, complete with burning bush.
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Re: Vetinari

Postby LilMaibe » Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:32 pm

And with the orc you have it that in the end he is basically admired by everyone. and if not admired then fully accepted (except of course by the bad guy. But who cares for the bad guy? He's the bad guy, we aren't to agree with him)
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Re: Vetinari

Postby stripy_tie » Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:50 pm

LilMaibe wrote:And with the orc you have it that in the end he is basically admired by everyone. and if not admired then fully accepted (except of course by the bad guy. But who cares for the bad guy? He's the bad guy, we aren't to agree with him)


Why do you hate this character so much? I just don't understand the sheer amount of malice and loathing you're constantly directing at it.
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Re: Vetinari

Postby LilMaibe » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:14 pm

stripy_tie wrote:
LilMaibe wrote:And with the orc you have it that in the end he is basically admired by everyone. and if not admired then fully accepted (except of course by the bad guy. But who cares for the bad guy? He's the bad guy, we aren't to agree with him)


Why do you hate this character so much? I just don't understand the sheer amount of malice and loathing you're constantly directing at it.


He's a character I didn't expect coming from a writer with Sir Terry's skills. Even if one would want to go and take his Alzheimer's into account, a character such as this is something you usually stop writing once you reach a certain level of practice/skill. (Unless you write such a character on purpose, for mocking something)
He's a classical Mary Sue. He succeeds at everything. Even when he 'fails' it gets turned into a victory for him by the story. There are scenes that serve no other purpose than to list more of his skills, which will never be mentioned or needed again later in the story. Everything he does is perfect, outstanding.
I can see what the story was heading for:
A character full of self-doubt and self-hatred who believes he has to have a gargantuan amount of skills to be helpful to others and thereby find worth.
But the execution of it... It's over-the-top in a negative way (YMMV). There never seems to be the option of him failing. Or at least the possibility of him to just do good work instead of perfect.
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