Eric Discussion **Spoilers**

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Postby Dotsie » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:46 am

Oh yeah... I think maybe Terry just realised afterwards that da Quirm would be a good name for Da Vinci, as well as Juan Ponce de León. So no relation. Trouserlegs and all that.
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Postby DaveC » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:15 am

Thought as much.



I liked the book and read it without illustrations, although I flicked though the illustrated version in WHSmiths when re-released a few months ago.

I didn't find it particularly memorable apart from the fact that it just seems in my head to just be made of three long scenes. :?

If it were a longer book I think it would've been better to get to know Eric a bit more before adventurering, go around his town etc...
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:01 pm

I think in a way Eric is another 'transitional' book like Mort and Wyrd Sisters and Guards Guards where Terry's looking around him and experimenting with different elements.

With Eric and it's position in the roll-call of Discworld novels it's tempting to compare it with Reaperman in some respects, as this is where we definitively wave bye-bye to the Dungeon Dimensions which had reached it's sell-by-date in parody in Moving Pictures I think (having been explored more or less to its 'proper' unique depths in Equal Rites) in the same way that we say farewell to the Trymons and Galder Weatherwax types of wizard and Ridcully and the Bursar breezed in?

Also I think Eric has a fair bit in common with the first part of CoM in terms of being an extended short story and in that comparison we also see Terry's progress as a writer in that the jokes and send-ups work a lot better this time. I never really got into graphic novels having a good enough imagination not to need the visuals and enough drawing talent myself not to admire the Marvel comic connotations (I don't need my fantasy to have superhero parameters thanks :wink: ) and I think this is another landmark in moving away from baseline paperbacks and into more hard-core literary realms for Terry.

Certainly the Josh Kirby sumptuous, if not-so-generous-as-you'd-thought-they-were-going-to-be illustrations are just that and not storyboarding dressed up as 'edgy street' cult and in fact, in the following novels Josh's artwork does begin to 'calm' a little and lose some of the wildness that die-hard Kirby fans still miss in Kidby's art (although his portraiture is brilliant his landscapes and action scenes lack Josh's 'zing') and which in its way summed up the early Discworld's feral magic and zest. having said that I read the non-illustrated paperback edition first and felt perfectly happy with just the cover pic to go with. I think Eric is like everyone's saying, not the best of, but kind of an 'easy chair' Terry book where he's cracked his style and is moving away from older takes and ideas and looking to move into the exciting new territory of his 'classic' era with grumpy witches showing the wizards a thing or two about style and of course the Watch getting better and better with every outing leaving no place for wizards with assassin tendencies and the Dungeon Dimensions completely outmoded and outclassed, hardly ever to be mentioned again :P
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Postby poohcarrot » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:12 pm

Were the Dungeon Dimensions mentioned in Eric? :?

Pandemonium isn't the Dungeon Dimensions, is it? :?
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Postby DaveC » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:13 pm

And Eric is before Moving Pictures. :?
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Postby Tonyblack » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:17 pm

And - as mentioned in my intro - this was one of four books that Terry had published in 1990. That was quite a workload and therefore somewhat understandable that writing a 'lite' novel (this almost counts as a novella) might suit that workload. :)
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Postby Dotsie » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:18 pm

poohcarrot wrote:Were the Dungeon Dimensions mentioned in Eric? :?

Only to point out the differences between that and Pandemonium.
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Postby Tonyblack » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:19 pm

poohcarrot wrote:Were the Dungeon Dimensions mentioned in Eric? :?

Pandemonium isn't the Dungeon Dimensions, is it? :?
Yes - Rincewind was in the Dungeon Dimension and seems to have been lifted out of there by one of the head demons in Pandemonium. He certainly wasn't in Pandemonium before Eric 'summoned' him and the DD was where he was left after Sourcery.
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Postby poohcarrot » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:23 pm

So how did Rincewind get out of the Dungeon Dimensions then?
Was he magically spirited there by Hell's second in command? :?
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Postby poohcarrot » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:25 pm

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Tony! :shock:
Are you related to Mrs Cake?! :shock:
How can you answer a question before I've asked it?!! :shock:
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Postby Tonyblack » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:28 pm

poohcarrot wrote:So how did Rincewind get out of the Dungeon Dimensions then?
Was he magically spirited there by Hell's second in command? :?
That seems to me to have been what happened. Duke Vassenego needed to send someone to appear to Eric (for his plot to work). He couldn't use a demon as Astfgl would have worked that out, so he pulled Rincewind from the DD and basically used him as a puppet. Astfgl seems to have had his eye on Eric for future purposes and the Duke basically ruins this plan.
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Postby Tonyblack » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:36 pm

poohcarrot wrote::shock: :shock: :shock:

Tony! :shock:
Are you related to Mrs Cake?! :shock:
How can you answer a question before I've asked it?!! :shock:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Going back to whether the DD was mentioned - during the Rite of AshkeEnte, when the wizards ask Death about the disturbances:

"Are we talking about the wizard Rincewind? The one with the--" the Bursar gave a shudder-- "horrible Luggage on legs? But he got blown up when there was all that business with the sourcerer, didn't he?"

INTO THE DUNGEON DIMENSIONS. AND NOW HE IS TRYING TO GET BACK HOME.


This is on page 16 of the VGSF paperback copy (without the illustrations) and there is a lengthy footnote on the same page. :)
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Postby poohcarrot » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:38 pm

This is what I meant. :D
It looks like you are answering my question, but my question was posted AFTER your answer.

poohcarrot wrote:So how did Rincewind get out of the Dungeon Dimensions then?
Was he magically spirited there by Hell's second in command? :?

Tonyblack wrote:Yes - Rincewind was in the Dungeon Dimension and seems to have been lifted out of there by one of the head demons in Pandemonium. He certainly wasn't in Pandemonium before Eric 'summoned' him and the DD was where he was left after Sourcery.
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Postby Quatermass » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:39 pm

They also state several times throughout the series that demons are relatively benign compared to the Dungeon Dimension entities. It's like the difference between a traditional demon and a Lovecraftian entity.
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:42 pm

Aside from Moving Pictures coming after Eric (I didn't have the list handy but I knew they were close to each other) the point stands - Terry had done the Dungeon Dimensions to death and they're not featured in any major way in the books after MP and then only to do the King Kong/Fay Wray scream-fest ending. :wink:

Like Tony says - it's Vassenego who's the moving force in getting Rincewind out of DD by virtue of Pandemonium being a parallel dimension and then we're moving into late medieval/Da Quirm Renaissance and even 'Dickensian' phase Discworld
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