The Truth Discussion **Spoilers**

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Postby swreader » Sun May 08, 2011 11:28 pm

pandasthumb wrote:
dennykay wrote:Moist von Lipwig was member of the plain potato church, wasn't he?


Yes, that sounds right to me.


I don't think so. Moist's primary discussion of his "religion" is made up to keep Otto from taking a picture of him for the paper, because he's still thinking that he doesn't want to be recognized. On a couple of occasions when he thinks he's on the point of death he commends his soul "to any god who can find it." That's not the plain potato church--that's a "just in case there is a god church."
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Postby Tonyblack » Mon May 09, 2011 5:51 am

The quote about the Potato religion is in Making Money, Sharlene - not Going Postal. It's page 266 of my hardback:

When he was a child Moist prayed every night before going to bed. His family were very active in the Plain Potato Church, which shunned the excesses of the Ancient and Orthodox Potato Church.


However, I don't necessarily see this as the same belief as Mr Tulip's. There's no mention of the things that Mr Tulip believes in. And Moist is from Uberwald where they are used to zombies, dwarfs, trolls, vampires and werewolves. Pin and Tulip seem to find it all very strange being amongst these races - this suggests that they don't come from Uberwald.

Like I said previously, it seems more likely that Tulip overheard and misunderstood a conversation when he was a child and has based his beliefs on that. We know that as far as Death is concerned, when people die they get what they believe they deserve. So when Tulip really believes that the potato will allow him to be reborn, that's what happens.

This is probably a comment by Terry about some of the strange and unlikely things that people believe in connected to religion.
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Postby meerkat » Mon May 09, 2011 6:49 am

I wonderd if they came from Borogravia or Moldovia. The behaviour sort of fits in with 'monstrous regiment' .
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Postby Tonyblack » Mon May 09, 2011 7:20 am

That would be my guess. :)
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Postby dune » Tue May 10, 2011 1:33 pm

Tonyblack wrote:Just because we don't hear about the Enquirer in the future doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Indeed, it seems to appeal to a certain type of person who isn't really interested in the 'truth' and find the Enquirer-type stories more interesting. I suspect that there are a whole bunch of newspapers opened in A-M following the success of The Times. We just don't hear about them.

The dwarfs strike me as being the archetypal immigrant - they move to A-M to make their fortune with the intention of one day going back home, but will probably settle down in A-M and bring their families too.

Part of the point of the book is to draw attention to the almost casual bigotry used by people who don't bother to find the truth about people, they just condemn them as 'those people' coming over here and taking our jobs with they weird traditions etc.

I think it's incredibly farsighted of Vetinari that he has an open door policy to immigration. People might not like it, but there's little denying that it's incredible good for the city. It's made the city the powerful place it is. Compare it to the city that Vimes goes back to in Night Watch. I guess it's like the New York of Discworld.


We do hear about them, don't we? Moist's death in Going Postal is covered by a couple of different papers if I am not mistaken.
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Postby Tonyblack » Tue May 10, 2011 2:57 pm

You may be right, but it's long enough ago since I read Going Postal, that I don't remember.

It's a wonder I remember my own name sometimes. :lol:
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Postby swreader » Tue May 10, 2011 3:51 pm

dune wrote:
Tonyblack wrote:Just because we don't hear about the Enquirer in the future doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Indeed, it seems to appeal to a certain type of person who isn't really interested in the 'truth' and find the Enquirer-type stories more interesting. I suspect that there are a whole bunch of newspapers opened in A-M following the success of The Times. We just don't hear about them.

The dwarfs strike me as being the archetypal immigrant - they move to A-M to make their fortune with the intention of one day going back home, but will probably settle down in A-M and bring their families too.

Part of the point of the book is to draw attention to the almost casual bigotry used by people who don't bother to find the truth about people, they just condemn them as 'those people' coming over here and taking our jobs with they weird traditions etc.

I think it's incredibly farsighted of Vetinari that he has an open door policy to immigration. People might not like it, but there's little denying that it's incredible good for the city. It's made the city the powerful place it is. Compare it to the city that Vimes goes back to in Night Watch. I guess it's like the New York of Discworld.


We do hear about them, don't we? Moist's death in Going Postal is covered by a couple of different papers if I am not mistaken.


The only mention in Going Postal of others paper occurs when the Hangman talks about the press coverage of the hanging. He mentions What Gallows? , the Times, the Pseudopolis Herald, and the Sto Plains Dealer as having reporters there. This, I think is a case of Terry using something for a moment, but not exploring it. Presumably the Times is William's paper, but the others are made up and relate vaguely to Moist's activities. Since Going Postal is after The Truth, there could,of course, be other newspapers, but there's nothing like The Inquirer mentioned (to the best of my recollection).

Moist is interviewed on several occasions by Sacharissa, who has (as he notices) gotten married but retained her professional single name.
Otto shows up taking pictures of the ride to Sto Lat, and of Moist's rescue of Twinkles the cat.

I don't remember any other mention of an Inquirer (or some other paper) in any of the later books. Certainly William shows up seeking interviews in Thud!, and someone has started drawing regular political cartoons--rather like Punch--if the ones in Monstrous Regiment are anything to go by.

It seems odd that the paper disappears, but I think the answer is that it served a particular function in The Truth, most notably that people will buy and read the most outlandish things by preference, even when there is a better paper available. Not sure that William's paper could have survived against that competition, if it continued to be well funded and if they found someone to write their stories--which both Carey and William find is a lot harder than it looks.
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Postby rockershovel » Tue May 10, 2011 5:38 pm

there must be a printing industry selling popular material in Ankh-Morpork before 'the Times' - doesn't Nobby Nobbs find a stack of 'Bows and Ammo' under a suspect's bed? Come to that, Cohen the Barbarian sells a booklet 'I Can Make You A Hero' a long way back - Nijel the Destroyer has a copy

However the description suggests woodcuts and hence fairly long printing schedules ( Bows and Ammos is presumably monthly ) .. Sacharissa Cripslock's father appears to cater to this trade.


Regarding timeframes, the whole series seems at times to be rather akin to the Aubrey/Maturin series ( Master and Commander etc ) - quite specific when necessary but vague in between, to accomodate more events than can realistically be dated between fixed dates if the books are read in sequence
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Postby Teppic » Tue May 10, 2011 6:39 pm

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Postby Siren » Wed May 11, 2011 12:58 pm

I still havent read this thread as I'm currently working through The Truth, should be done by later today so I'll be back with opinions later but...
On BBC breakfast news yesterday morning around 8am the female newsreader commented "The public interest and what the public are interested are two different things". In my half asleep state I thought 'Ye gods, she's quoting the book I'm reading, this is insane!'. But I think this must be a famous quote from elsewhere? Anyone know where it first surfaced? Quoting TP or not though,it was definitley a :shock: moment.
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Postby Tonyblack » Wed May 11, 2011 1:06 pm

:lol: How interesting! It may be a case of Art imitating life and Terry making a statement that makes so much sense that it was bound to come out sooner or later. Or maybe the newsreader is a Pratchett fan. :wink:
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Postby Siren » Wed May 11, 2011 1:12 pm

Tonyblack wrote::lol: How interesting! It may be a case of Art imitating life and Terry making a statement that makes so much sense that it was bound to come out sooner or later. Or maybe the newsreader is a Pratchett fan. :wink:


I've got a sneaking hope that it was a fan statement as she kind of trotted it out under her breath like she was quoting something.... got to be one of the most memorable quotes from the book, especially for newsreader I'd imagine. Right! off to actually finish this book. :D
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Postby rockershovel » Wed May 11, 2011 1:22 pm

The point is far from new. Juvenal's aphorism regarding 'bread and circuses' is the same point as applied to a society with no popular press in the modern sense

G K Chesterton's summary of journalism - "consists largely of saying LORD JONES DEAD to people who didn't know he was alive" dates from around the time of the First World War.

Evelyn Waugh's Scoop! expands considerably on the theme, along with the relationship, if any, to what is happening and what is actually reported in the press.

Orwell wrote several essays on the subject, most notable "the Decline of the English Murder" in which the News of the World features prominently
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Postby Tonyblack » Wed May 11, 2011 1:54 pm

rockershovel wrote:The point is far from new. Juvenal's aphorism regarding 'bread and circuses' is the same point as applied to a society with no popular press in the modern sense

Excuse my ignorance, but what is that?
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Postby Tonyblack » Wed May 11, 2011 2:10 pm

Never mind, I found the reference myself.
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