The Last Continent Discussion **Spoilers**

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Postby poohcarrot » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:54 pm

:shock: Even Q agrees with me? :shock:

Wow! :shock:

:lol:
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Postby raisindot » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:52 am

Quatermass wrote:The central problem with creationism is that you cannot test God, yet science demands that you put everything to the test.


I'm no creationist, but at the moment there are some scientific theories that can't be 'physically' tested or observed and possibly may never be, such as string theory. At best then, one can say that one 'believes ' in string theory, just as one says they 'believe' in intelligent design.
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Postby Quatermass » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:13 pm

raisindot wrote:
Quatermass wrote:The central problem with creationism is that you cannot test God, yet science demands that you put everything to the test.


I'm no creationist, but at the moment there are some scientific theories that can't be 'physically' tested or observed and possibly may never be, such as string theory. At best then, one can say that one 'believes ' in string theory, just as one says they 'believe' in intelligent design.


The potential to put them to the test, or else dump the theories in favour of ones that actually fit the facts, is still there.

I will admit, many a scientist, unfortunately, has changed facts to suit their views, and not the other way around. I remember this thing about a falsely identified kind of radiation called 'n-rays'. There's a brief summary of that here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N_ray
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Postby raisindot » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:38 pm

Quatermass wrote:The potential to put them to the test, or else dump the theories in favour of ones that actually fit the facts, is still there.


Absolutely true. The problem comes when physical evidence doesn't exist to prove the theory. Math is not enough. Einstein's general theory of relatively never gained acceptance until it was proven by astronomical observation in 1919. It took even longer for his special theory of relatively to be proven.

In the case of the natural selection vs. intelligent design debate, this may never been proven. Both theories accept evolution as fact; what they debate is what processes drove evolution. Even when you see evolution in action today, such as Tony's point about bacterial mutating to resist antibiotics, one could easily argue that an intelligent designer was responsible for the mutation that caused resulted in one lonely bacterium to be able to resist death by penicillin and go on to multiply, while all the other bacterium died out. Natural selection advocates would say that a random mutuation caused that bacterium to be born with that resistance.
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Postby LilMaibe » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:49 pm

And this is what I love the Discworld-fandom for.
Show me one other fandom on which's boards you can start a discussion about a certain volume/episode/part and have it turn into a discussion about creationism vs Evolution that doesn't turn into a flamewar after three posts :D
(Not to mention this board also gies advice on interior design :) )
Love you guys :D
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Postby Cool Middle Name » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:42 pm

I really cannot believe that no religion has claimed a God of Evolution before Pratchettism.
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Postby Quatermass » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:25 pm

raisindot wrote:
Quatermass wrote:The potential to put them to the test, or else dump the theories in favour of ones that actually fit the facts, is still there.


Absolutely true. The problem comes when physical evidence doesn't exist to prove the theory. Math is not enough. Einstein's general theory of relatively never gained acceptance until it was proven by astronomical observation in 1919. It took even longer for his special theory of relatively to be proven.

In the case of the natural selection vs. intelligent design debate, this may never been proven. Both theories accept evolution as fact; what they debate is what processes drove evolution. Even when you see evolution in action today, such as Tony's point about bacterial mutating to resist antibiotics, one could easily argue that an intelligent designer was responsible for the mutation that caused resulted in one lonely bacterium to be able to resist death by penicillin and go on to multiply, while all the other bacterium died out. Natural selection advocates would say that a random mutuation caused that bacterium to be born with that resistance.


The fact is, we know the mechanisms involved, and genetic selection has been proven by millennia of animal domestication and breeding. Poor Darwin was beginning to fret about how natural selection truly worked. If only he managed to read Gregor Mendel's work, he would have been less melancholy over the years...
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Postby poohcarrot » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:47 pm

The next book TP wrote was Carpe Jugulum.

In CJ a believer in an objectionable religion is eventually revealed to be a nice guy, despite his bizarre beliefs.

(So there's still hope for CaptMeme. :lol:)

Maybe TP thought he'd gone too far with LC, so tried to emphasize that just because you do believe in all that creationism bollux, you can still be a nice person. :P
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Postby poohcarrot » Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:53 am

As SW is conspicious by her absence, please allow me. The following can be cut and pasted onto every debate. :lol:

Delete where inapplicable

Dear Pooh

(insert forum members' name here) tells me you are quite intelligent, but it is obvious to me that you are (a fool/a buffoon/dead super).

It is perfectly clear that yet again, you (haven't/have) read the book. Your (rant/tirade/incisive dissection) is (offensive/childish/spot on) and is purely and simply (anti-US/insulting my husbanf/masterly).

You really are (a git/the spawn of Satan/a genius).

(Burn in hell/I hope you catch the pox/love and kisses),

SW :lol:
"Disliking Carrot would be like kicking a puppy."
"You kicked a puppy," Lobsang said accusingly.
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Postby Tonyblack » Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:55 am

:roll:
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Postby Tonyblack » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:10 pm

For those who missed them, what Australian references did you spot?

I'm sure everyone got that Rincewind managed to invent Vegemite - or did you? :)
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Postby meerkat » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:17 pm

Yes, that was a real giggle! And the remarks thrown to Skippy, nose twitching, etc.Oh, and the reference to the Sydney Opera House and the Gay Parade at King's Cross (Oz not London).

Just finished LC yet again and, no matter how often I read it, I still laugh out loud.
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Postby Quatermass » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:20 pm

Tonyblack wrote:For those who missed them, what Australian references did you spot?

I'm sure everyone got that Rincewind managed to invent Vegemite - or did you? :)


I got something like that. And the Peach Nelly, although I had read about that beforehand. The Mad Max, Skippy, and Priscilla references are a given. Not to mention the fact that Australia is a place where everything is out to get you. :)
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Postby raisindot » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:40 pm

Weren't there a couple Mad Max/Road Warrior references in there somewhere?
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Postby pip » Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:43 pm

raisindot wrote:Weren't there a couple Mad Max/Road Warrior references in there somewhere?


Pretty much a whole section of the book involving Mad . One of my favourite bits especially with Rincewinds accidental violence :lol:
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