Philosophy of Vimes...What a guy!

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Philosophy of Vimes...What a guy!

Postby mutantfinger » Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:08 am

Is it possible to live up to 'once you accept a good excuse the bad ones quickly follow'?

The scene in which Vimes tore accross AM to read the silly book (kids books should be silly BTW) made me think a lot about being a father and what that means...

I love it when TP book makes you laugh but I love them more when they make you think.
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Postby Tonyblack » Sun Feb 20, 2011 7:04 am

Welcome to the site, mutantfinger! :D

I agree - I can actually do without the funny stuff in the books. The fact that they make me think is what keeps me reading Terry's books.
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Postby mutantfinger » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:41 am

ta for the welcome...

lovin the site, I now know what to do after I have finished one of the books whilst I'm deciding which one to read/re-read next.
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Postby Tonyblack » Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:42 am

Definitely! You'll never take in all the subtle stuff on one reading. :wink:
"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
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Re: Philosophy of Vimes...What a guy!

Postby raisindot » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:18 pm

mutantfinger wrote:Is it possible to live up to 'once you accept a good excuse the bad ones quickly follow'?

The scene in which Vimes tore accross AM to read the silly book (kids books should be silly BTW) made me think a lot about being a father and what that means...


It's not just his philosophy of fatherhood, but his philosophy of life in general. It's the same philosophy that keeps him sober, and that keeps him from crossing the line from upholder of the law to beserker vigilante. It's the philosophy of someone who knows whose weaknesses, understands the risks of giving into to them--even a little--and has created an entire system of internal rituals, routines and checks and balances to keep his destructive impulses in check.
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Postby Tonyblack » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:40 pm

What a guy! :D




Ummm - I mean Vimes, not J-I-B :lol:
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Sam Vimes, Father

Postby ExTexan » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:44 am

I must admit, I was somewhat surprised to find just how dedicated Mister/Captain/Commander/Sir/Lord Vimes was as a father. After some reflection, though, I realized it is entirely consistent with his character.

He becomes totally focused on a given problem, and there is no greater "problem" in this world, or any other, for that matter, than that of raising the offspring of a sentient race. Fish, reptiles, and other lower life forms leave their newly-born to fend for themselves. Typically, though, the higher on the intelligence scale a creature is, the more time and effort they put into the care and education of their progeny. (For whatever reason, most humans fall into this category.)

Sam Vimes is a prime example of this. He is an intelligent (not intellectual: that's something else altogether) being. He has a deep and abiding sense of responsibility. He does not love easily, but when he does, he gives unreservedly. Add to this his bulldog sense of duty and his absolute stubbornness, and you wind up with what is possibly the perfect father figure.

I wish he'd been my father.
One man's theology is another man's belly laugh.
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Postby Tonyblack » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:54 am

Howdy ExTexan! :D Welcome to the site.

I think that becoming a father has a profound effect on Sam Vimes - although it takes a while for him to realise it. In the past he's only really been responsible for himself, but now he has a son he's looking at the world through different eyes. And it scares him!
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Wondering...

Postby ExTexan » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:05 am

I have to wonder - pre-marriage, was Ankh-Morpork Sam's "child"? I mean, let's face it: he exhibited much of the same sort of dedication to the city that he now gives to his son, right? Does this mean he'll be able to let go (a little bit, anyway!) of his single-minded preoccupation to what he views as his duty to the city?

From another view, does Sir Terry have any ideas or intentions of further exploring the life of Sam Vimes? One can only hope...
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Postby Tonyblack » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:27 am

I guess we'll find out in Snuff. :D I think there's a lot more to explore with Vimes. Granny has pretty much come to the end of her development I think. Although it was very good to see her get a new lease of life in the Tiffany books.
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Postby DaveC » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:44 am

I thought the city was like a woman...or was that just drunk Vimes?
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Postby The Mad Collector » Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:23 pm

The city can be many things :D

From Guards! Guards!
The city wasa, wasa, wasa wossname. Thing. Woman. Thass what it was. Woman. Roaring, ancient, centuries old. Strung you along, let you fall in thingy, love, with her, then kicked you inna, inna, thingy. Thingy, in your mouth. Tongue. Tonsils. Teeth. That’s what it, she, did. She wasa . . . thing, you know, lady dog. Puppy. Hen. Bitch. And then you hated her and, and just when you thought you’d got her, it, out of your, your, whatever, then she opened her great booming rotten heart to you, caught you off bal, bal, bal, thing. Ance. Yeah. Thassit. Never knew where where you stood. Lay. Only thing you were sure of, you couldn’t let her go. Because, because she was yours, all you had, even in her gutters . .
One of those? Oh I'm sure I have one somewhere..

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Postby deldaisy » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:42 pm

Welcome ummmm MutantFinger! :) (Do we want to know why?)

Image

We had a huge discussion on Sam's absolute determination to ALWAYS be there to read WMC to his son.

Personally it has never sat right with me. Annoyed the heck out of me in fact. Really got up my nose. Smacks of being a control freak. Of obsession.

Putting a baby to bed (a toddler) and sharing that special moment, that warm special time should have been shared. Sam's preoccupation with being the only one to do it sets his son up for a fall.... (perhaps a devestating moment in a future book).

What about Sybil? Why can't they share it. Together OR take it in turns? No one parent can be there absolutely..... life gets in the way... and it doesn't mean they are a bad parent... it justs means s**t happens. It would be a better life lesson to a child to teach them that sometimes there are compromises in life and when they happen its not the end of the world. They are still loved.
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Postby Beyond » Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:02 pm

Sybil is with her baby all day, but Vimes works a lot and wants to be sure that whatever happens he will be there for his son. It is not about what other people would say or what the child might think, it is about Vimes trying to prove to himself that he is a good parent and a good cop at the same time.
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thanks for the insights...

Postby mutantfinger » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:16 pm

It is true that 'in real life' a child must know that a parent won't always be there to read the book, however, in my escapist enjoyment of the Discworld, I want heroes to be something to look up to and therefore I stand by the 'excuse' quote with which I started the discussion.

Sam MUST read the story and for many of the reasons that have been given by the members of the forum.

His dedication to 'the cause' is his raison d'etre...(whatever the cause may be)
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