The Colour of Magic Discussion *Spoilers*

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Re: The Colour of Magic Discussion *Spoilers*

Postby Beaumont » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:40 pm

The concept of Wyrmberg and the line of succession of its lords seems very similar (parallel perhaps?) to the concept of Stormhold and the line of succession of the its lords from Neil Gaiman's novel, Stardust. Was this the result of some session at the pub where these two authors discussed the concept and then both set out to see who could write the better version? Or am I missing the mark here?

Cheers!

P.S. Apologies if this has been asked before, but I have not completed the book yet and am trying to avoid spoilers. That said, I wanted to get this question asked before life happened and it slipped out of my mind. Also, as a new member, I assume that I'm breaking some kind of rule, and I apologize. After this, I'll go look around for a FAQ.
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Re: The Colour of Magic Discussion *Spoilers*

Postby Penfold » Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:31 pm

Firstly, Hellooo and welcome Beaumont! :D

Unfortunately, I can't answer your question in relation to Stardust as I've never read it. I am happy to say that you haven't broken any rules (as far as I know) since we often discuss old topics and if a point or question gets repeated, it doesn't matter. There are always new members who haven't read the original post (as well as a few of us olduns who miss it first time around). :lol: (Or in my case, the second and third as well! :lol: )

Might I suggest dropping into the Broken Drum and introducing yourself. Regarding the rules, we're quite easy going here but feel free to ask if your not sure about anything. :D
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Re: The Colour of Magic Discussion *Spoilers*

Postby Tonyblack » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:23 pm

Welcome to the site, Beaumont! :D

The first couple of books are more about parody of Sci-Fi/Fantasy than the later ones, so there a real mish-mash of ideas in there. It seems to me that the Wyrmburg is, at least partly based on the Dragonrider books of Anne McCaffrey. The way of naming the riders is similar and the dragons and riders live in a hollowed out mountain.

I don't think that Terry and Neil even knew each other at the time of writing, but they are both using typical Fantasy stereotypes and situations in their books as that is the genre they are writing. :) I'm sure if you look at most Fantasy series you will find similar.
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Re: The Colour of Magic Discussion *Spoilers*

Postby Beaumont » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:22 pm

Hey, thanks guys! I'll definitely drop by The Broken Drum.

I think I've got some clarity on my questions from this piece in whcih Gaiman describes his first meeting with Pratchett, February 1985: http://www.neilgaiman.com/p/Cool_Stuff/ ... preciation

Pratchett had just published The Color of Magic, and Gaiman would not publish Stardust for about 14 more years, in 1999.

The thing that struck me about Wyrmberg was the way in which the Lord of the mountain was so satisfied that his three children would have to kill each other in order to decide the line of succession, and he watched from beyond the grave (more or less) while it played out. The exact same plot played out in Stardust 14 years later, when the Lord of Stormhold watched his seven children go to great lengths to murder each other in order to decide the new Lord of the keep. It was played for humor in both books, although it was more central to the plot in Stardust.

Maybe this is a more common occurrence in fantasy than I realize?

Regardless, I finished The Color of Magic last night, and so now I'm looking forward to reading back through this thread. :)
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Re: The Colour of Magic Discussion *Spoilers*

Postby =Tamar » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:11 am

Beaumont wrote:... children would have to kill each other in order to decide the line of succession...
Maybe this is a more common occurrence in fantasy than I realize?


It seems to have happened fairly often in history, even when there was a clear official line of succession. Fantasy didn't have to invent it.
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Re: The Colour of Magic Discussion *Spoilers*

Postby DreadfulKata » Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:40 pm

Beaumont wrote:The thing that struck me about Wyrmberg was the way in which the Lord of the mountain was so satisfied that his three children would have to kill each other in order to decide the line of succession, and he watched from beyond the grave (more or less) while it played out. The exact same plot played out in Stardust 14 years later, when the Lord of Stormhold watched his seven children go to great lengths to murder each other in order to decide the new Lord of the keep. It was played for humor in both books, although it was more central to the plot in Stardust.

Maybe this is a more common occurrence in fantasy than I realize?

Regardless, I finished The Color of Magic last night, and so now I'm looking forward to reading back through this thread. :)


It's not the first time something Gaiman wrote has been compared to something PRatchett wrote, and I think you've partly covered why that is there - there are just some tropes common to fantasy.

But there's also the fact that Pratchett and Gaiman's brains work in fairly similar ways and they're both interested in lampshading, subverting and sending up such tropes. So both writers might look at a story like, for instance, King Lear and have the take on it of, 'this king protests a little too much that he doesn't want his kids fighting after putting them into direct competition with each other...'. So both are reacting to the same source ideas in similar ways.

For instance, something that often gets pointed out by fans of both Pratchett and Gaiman is how similar The Truth's Mr Pin and Mr Tulip are to Neverwhere's Croup And Vandemar. And though some of the similarities really are uncanny (Tulip/Vandemar's fondess for art, for instance), I tend to accept what Pratchett says about not emulating Gaiman even subconsciously. The writers just have similar takes on life and write in similar areas of fiction, so stuff like this is going to happen from time to time!
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Re: The Colour of Magic Discussion *Spoilers*

Postby Beaumont » Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:11 pm

=Tamar wrote:
Beaumont wrote:... children would have to kill each other in order to decide the line of succession...
Maybe this is a more common occurrence in fantasy than I realize?


It seems to have happened fairly often in history, even when there was a clear official line of succession. Fantasy didn't have to invent it.


Of course, but as DreadfulKata notes, they both subvert the trope in the same way, having all family members willingly and, perhaps gleefully participate in a game where they are all quite openly trying to murder one another. In history, the murder would have been scandal. In these books, murder was the explicit expectation from the get go.
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Re: The Colour of Magic Discussion *Spoilers*

Postby UnseenAcademical88 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:59 pm

Just thought I'd let Kindle users out there know that The Colour of Magic is now £1.99 on Amazon.co.uk :) I originally bought when it was up at £5.22, perhaps I should have waited until now...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Colour-Of-Magic-Discworld-ebook/dp/B0031RS69G/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1383843255&sr=1-12
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