Are you a Vimes or Carrot (Wo)man?

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Postby Sjoerd3000 » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:20 am

poohcarrot wrote:I would hazard a guess that the people who don't like Carrot also don't like Rincewind. 8)


I like Rincewind :D Loved seeing him back in Science of Discworld :D

I don't mind Carrot, he isn't my favourite character but I don't dislike him :wink:
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Postby pip » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:23 am

It has to be Vimes but the split in the books doesn't work really.
Certain characters in the series, with Vimes as the real standout have grown and developed book to book and therefore become easier to associate with, empathise with, and generally give a damn about them.
The early watch books as such really feed the later ones wether this was the intention at the time.
Carrot is a closed off charachter. Even Angua has no idea whats going on in his head. He has not changed a bit and never will and is therefore less enjoyable to read about.
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Postby Tonyblack » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:29 am

poohcarrot wrote:I would hazard a guess that the people who don't like Carrot also don't like Rincewind. 8)
I disagree. Rincewind as a character is a very useful device for exploring the far reaches of the Discworld. He's almost like an indestructible cartoon character who you can blow up, throw vast distances, drop from the sky into the sea, and he always survives - without any injuries.

If Vimes (for example) needs to travel thousands of miles, then an elaborate plot has to be developed to get him there. If Rincewind needs to get there, a simple bit of magic by some bumbling wizards will do the trick (or an invisible dragon, interfering demon, magic book or whatever).

We get to visit places on the Disc that we would never normally visit. And Rincewind has lots of flaws that allow him to highlight the stupidity of humans (such as in Interesting Times). He sees things for what they really are and doesn't have much truck with such things as honour and heroism.

Carrot is a totally different matter. His character has gotten weaker with the series where Rincewind has gotten stronger. :wink:
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Postby Bouncy Castle » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:11 am

I adore Vimes.

Rincewind cracks me up.

Carrot, I can take or leave, though his loyalty to the Watch and to Angua cannot be faulted, and he's very useful in difficult situations!!

Fred and Nobby are sublime, as is, in his way, Vetanari.

I could go on for ages about all the characters, but I don't really think there's one I really can say that I dislike.

And as for Otto von Chriek and his reaction to flash photography.... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Beautiful Dirt » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:18 am

Although I do favour Vimes as the lead in the Watch books, I still like Carrot. It just takes another character's observations of him to make him funny; Gaspode in FE is a good example of this.

Rincewind I adore, he works well with so many characters: Twoflower, Librarian, Cohen, Death, Vetinari and the wizards. I loved the Last Continent, Rincewind staggering around with a talking roo and the wizards cast adrift in the company of a lady is hilarious. The faculty of UU was not anywhere near as good pre Ridcully.

Does everyone like The Last Hero? Another book I like Rincewind in and the artwork was refreshing.
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Postby Bouncy Castle » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:22 am

Beautiful Dirt wrote: The faculty of UU was not anywhere near as good pre Ridcully.


Hear, Hear!!
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Postby Tonyblack » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:30 am

Bouncy Castle wrote:
Beautiful Dirt wrote: The faculty of UU was not anywhere near as good pre Ridcully.


Hear, Hear!!
The introduction of Ridcully and the decent into Dry Frog Pills Land for the Bursar are two of the best things about Moving Pictures. When you know the Bursar from later books and see him just as Ridcully arrives, it's hysterical. :lol:
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:05 am

poohcarrot wrote:I would hazard a guess that the people who don't like Carrot also don't like Rincewind. 8)

You should get yourself a hazard warning - :lol:

Love Rincewind but don't like Carrot too much anymore - he bores me rigid in fact :?
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Postby raisindot » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:23 pm

poohcarrot wrote:I would hazard a guess that the people who don't like Carrot also don't like Rincewind. 8)


Not true. While I prefer Vimes, I still like Carrot (the Carrot of Jingo is my favorite).

Conversely, I don't like Rincewind. Well, it's less about "not liking" Rincewind and more about not really liking the Rincewind books all that much. For me at least, he never developed beyond a two-joke character, playing a straight man to all the craziness going on around him wherever he happened to be. Which is why I think Pterry largely abandoned him when he found much meatier characterization to chew on in Vimes, Granny, Moist--even Carrot.

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Postby Doughnut Jimmy » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:43 pm

Conversely, I don't like Rincewind. Well, it's less about "not liking" Rincewind and more about not really liking the Rincewind books all that much. For me at least, he never developed beyond a two-joke character, playing a straight man to all the craziness going on around him wherever he happened to be. Which is why I think Pterry largely abandoned him when he found much meatier characterization to chew on in Vimes, Granny, Moist--even Carrot.


Interesting - I was going to say the opposite - that both of them were one joke characters but with Rincewind it remained a useful device for stuff to happen to and around him but with Carrot it just became stale.
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Postby poohcarrot » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:45 pm

J-I*b wrote:Me? I'm a Vimes man, through and through, which is TFE and Thud! are #1 and #3 on my 5 favorites DW books and GG wouldn't even make my top 10.

Thought? Refutations? Poohisms :shock: ?


Pooh's amended quote wrote:I would hazard a guess that the people who don't like Carrot as much are also not too keen on Rincewind.


J-I*b wrote:Conversely, I don't like Rincewind.


See! 8)
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Postby ghostsecurity28 » Mon Sep 20, 2010 3:54 pm

thinking randomly " pink gaspode so funny " :lol:
And in Heather's case, there were sometimes Third Thoughts and Fourth Thoughts, although these were quite difficult to manage and sometimes led her to walk into doors
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Postby raisindot » Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:17 pm

poohcarrot wrote:
Pooh's amended quote wrote:I would hazard a guess that the people who don't like Carrot as much are also not too keen on Rincewind.



Your amazing, history-monkish ability to go back in time and change your own arguments after people have proven them wrong is most impressive!

You must have kicked arse on the debate team! :D

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Postby raisindot » Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:24 pm

Doughnut Jimmy wrote:
Conversely, I don't like Rincewind. Well, it's less about "not liking" Rincewind and more about not really liking the Rincewind books all that much. For me at least, he never developed beyond a two-joke character, playing a straight man to all the craziness going on around him wherever he happened to be. Which is why I think Pterry largely abandoned him when he found much meatier characterization to chew on in Vimes, Granny, Moist--even Carrot.


Interesting - I was going to say the opposite - that both of them were one joke characters but with Rincewind it remained a useful device for stuff to happen to and around him but with Carrot it just became stale.


I don't quite agree. Carrot ultimately have become a stale, dead-end characteri but his personality did evolve--from the young bumpkin of GG to the "kingly Vetinari-manipulator" of MAA to the less-appealing, self-centered, duty abandoning lover of "TFE." You might not like what he became, but his character did develop.

Whereas it's very hard for me to tell the difference between the one-joke cowardly clown Rincewind of "Color of Magic" and the one-joke cowardly clown Rincewind in "Unseen Academicals." The only things that seem to change in the Rincewind books are the settings. Doesn't mean the stories aren't funny or enjoyable. They're just not my personal cuppa.


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Postby Dotsie » Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:05 pm

You know, I agree with pretty much everything J-I-B has said on this topic. In fact, I was coming on here to write his last post. But it's already done for me :wink:
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