I Shall Wear Midnight *Spoilers*

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Postby Dotsie » Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:36 am

Tonyblack wrote:It occurred to me that Tiffany's foe in this book was ignorance. Demonising witches and executing them is something that maybe in the past now, but that type of ignorance is still very much with us with such things as racism and homophobia.


Did it seem a bit of a cop-out to you that amost all of the ignorance was due to a spell gone wrong? People just are that ignorant, and it might reach fever pitch levels sometimes, but it's always there. Alright so we might not know anyone who wants to execute witches, but any woman will tell you that there are still men (and even women) who think that women just aren't up to the job. And as you say, there is still racism and homophobia. And it doesn't take magic for this to happen, or for it to get out of hand.

But in ISWM, all the bad feeling wasn't the people's fault, and it went away overnight - phew!
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Postby Tonyblack » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:00 am

I'm not sure it went away completely - I seem to recall that it was always there, it just took someone to stir it up and the 'mob' mentality would kick in.

In a way the Cunning Man was the personification of hatred through ignorance. Yes he exists on the Discworld and needs to be defeated by Tiffany, but this is Terry using allusion to make a point. Ignorance can be defeated by logic and education - indeed, this is one of the reasons that Tiffany gets the school built - to teach understanding, not just facts.

The more people understand about other people the less they are likely to treat them with suspicion and hatred. I think this is the real message of the book. :)
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Postby serioussmilies » Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:19 am

The Mad Collector wrote: Mind you the throw away line about looking after her son has got potential for a further story.


I thought that that meant Preston for some reason, back to the book for me...
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Postby Tonyblack » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:26 am

Welcome to the site, serioussmilies! :D
"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
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Postby Addams » Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:34 pm

I just realized, i haven't really enjoyed a Pratchett's book since Wintersmith.

Making money and Unseen Academical were seriously boring (in my very humble opinion, i'm quite sure a lot of you love those books) and now this one...well...definitely the weakest Tiffany book and even more sad, i didn't laugh or was amused one single time. (again, it's just my opinion)

And really, once again a creature is after the girl ? Really ?

Tiffany got a happy end though, that's a nice touch.

And it's always nice to see Carott and Angua.

Ohh and let's not forget good old Esk.

All in all, some good points but i really can't say that this book interested me. (which really is a pain cause i'm huge fan of the first 3 books)
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Postby TheCunningMan » Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:07 pm

I felt that the Cunning Man just wasn't really made scary enough, or said another way, it seemed to obvious each time he showed up after the first time that she'd get away. The whole Hare thing seemed a little contrived. I loved the Wintersmith and can re-read it anytime again and again, it's not as predictable (thank god I've got short memory).

So those are the negative thoughts, but I certainly didn't come away with any bad feeling over all. Infact as I've mentioned on the other thread, I actually cried over the last sentence ( I was a little drunk at the time). I love the whole concept of the sound of words.

I get scared when I see main characters of other stories showing up. Get a bad feeling that TP is doing his last round as it were and saying goodbye to them... but hell, I am a morbid old soul.
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Postby sheilaj » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:45 pm

I thought this book was very sad..
When my grandmother died i went to sit with her in hospital on the same day. She asked after all the family, where they were and what they were doing. This was quite specific and not just were they alright. Then she said she was tired and wanted to sleep and told me to go for a walk in the sunshine. I saw her settle and left. she went quietly to sleep and died in her sleep. I have always believed that she had decided to do that and her questions were placing us for her with our lives going on.

This book had much the same feeling for me. We see familiar beloved characters behaving characteristically, we are given a sense that the Discworld will continue, and in which direction) by the introduction of Amber, Preston and Letitia. It felt very strongly like goodbye.....

Well that's that off me chest...
I thought that the Cunning Man was genuinely frightening and am glad that TP doesn't write horror as I could never read it. I think that Stephen King is a totally brilliant writer but his books give me nightmares!

Brilliant to see Wee Mad Arthur as the first police MacFeegle. I wonder if TP planned it or if he looked at WMA one day and realised "hey you're a MacFeegle?"

I am glad the hare story turned out to be a real truth and not a mystical one.

I think its a bit key that Tiffany's way of taking away the pain involves the active co operation of the patient and doesn't shorten the patient's life, ...having said that I absolutely support the concept of proactive pain relief for people in this world, even at the expense of shortening the life provided there is overt agreement by the patient or their advocate.

and yes...very heavy for a children's book!
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Postby Turtles4Ever » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:14 pm

Well, I finished ISWM last night and am unsure about it. For about the first 3/4 of the book I thought it was rather excellent - it had a definite 'edge' to it and was an incredibly addictive read. It was after we found out about Letitia being a Witch and the lifting the of the 'curse' that she had put on Tiffany when it all started to go downhill for me. It just became ....... well, less interesting. And, as I had expected, the duchess lost her vile bite.

Then again, it might just have been a change of mood on my behalf. I must read it again. :)

Interesting narrative style to the story as well - the way it was told reminded me a bit of Nation (not a great book I'm afraid). During the first few pages there was a distinct lack of 'contractions' in the narrative - for example, 'was not' used instead of 'wasn't', 'cannot' instead of 'can't', etc. This seemed to diminish as the book progressed and I couldn't help but wonder if it was deliberate or some 'failing' with the speech-based software that Terry now uses.

So, on the first reading, ISWM wasn't Terry's best, but it was, on the whole, very good for the most part.
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Postby sheilaj » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:42 pm

TheCunningMan wrote:I felt that the Cunning Man just wasn't really made scary enough, or said another way, it seemed to obvious each time he showed up after the first time that she'd get away. The whole Hare thing seemed a little contrived. I loved the Wintersmith and can re-read it anytime again and again, it's not as predictable (thank god I've got short memory).

So those are the negative thoughts, but I certainly didn't come away with any bad feeling over all. Infact as I've mentioned on the other thread, I actually cried over the last sentence ( I was a little drunk at the time). I love the whole concept of the sound of words.

I get scared when I see main characters of other stories showing up. Get a bad feeling that TP is doing his last round as it were and saying goodbye to them... but hell, I am a morbid old soul.


Its interesting that you felt that too...
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Postby sheilaj » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:42 pm

[
I edited this before the site froze...sorry for the duplicate
Last edited by sheilaj on Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Verns » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:05 am

I love Tiffany Aching and thought this was a cracking finale to her story. As others have already said, this was a story about the power of education to eradicate ignorance and prejudice, but wrapped up in a fairy story so that the allegory was never too heavy.

I didn't realise the mysterious time-travelling witch was Esk, nor did I figure out who was helping Tiffany behind the scenes. I'm not entirely sure what 'old' Tiffany did to help 'young' Tiffany (other than fan the flames) so I'm not convinced that part worked. I'll have to read it again (natch) but I'd have liked to have known more about what happened when Amber went home to her parents, and how Preston tracked down the odious nurse.

So, for me, there were a couple of gaps in the narrative. Maybe these were intentional - Esk's son, Amber and Letitia have potential in future yarns - or maybe I just like novels to be wrapped up neatly.

The other aspect of the book I loved was Tiffany's realisation that her relationship with Roland had been built on the attraction of two lonely people who didn't really have much in common other than a frying-pan. But in Preston, with his love of words and quick understanding, she found her soul-mate. Sniff.
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Postby Tonyblack » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:09 am

It struck me that after Amber's ordeal, she was quite literally 'away with the fairies'.*




*To any Feegles reading this - I promise I'm not calling you fairies - HONEST!!! :wink:
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Postby Tiffany » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:04 am

sheilaj wrote:
TheCunningMan wrote:I felt that the Cunning Man just wasn't really made scary enough, or said another way, it seemed to obvious each time he showed up after the first time that she'd get away. The whole Hare thing seemed a little contrived. I loved the Wintersmith and can re-read it anytime again and again, it's not as predictable (thank god I've got short memory).

So those are the negative thoughts, but I certainly didn't come away with any bad feeling over all. Infact as I've mentioned on the other thread, I actually cried over the last sentence ( I was a little drunk at the time). I love the whole concept of the sound of words.

I get scared when I see main characters of other stories showing up. Get a bad feeling that TP is doing his last round as it were and saying goodbye to them... but hell, I am a morbid old soul.


Its interesting that you felt that too...





I felt this too. I did like the end though.
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Postby rferrett » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:01 pm

Really enjoyed it. And I must say I am sorry that I won't ever spend any new time in the presence of Tiff and the Feegles agin.

Echo the worries from other postsers about Saying bye to major characters. But surely even if that was in Terrys thoughts he would want to give Granny Weatherwax and Vimes better send offs that their parts in this book?
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Postby The Mad Collector » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:58 pm

This certainly isn't the end of Granny and Vimes, after all Vimes is the main character in Snuff
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